Riots in London

Clarence LeRoy Van Cleef wrote:A man (Mark Duggan) is shot by the police. The man (Duggan) had a gun on him (is this confirmed?).

Initial police reports suggested that Duggan had shot a police office in the course of an attempted arrest.

Subsequent reports suggest that the bullet removed from the slightly injured officer's radio was actually a police-issue bullet- i.e. the officer had been accidentally shot by one of his own colleagues.

The deputation to Tottenham police station requesting answers to these questions was kept waiting for 4 hours without any response.

That's when it all kicked off- it's suggested, anyway. But nothing will be established for certain until the official inquiry has taken place (and maybe not even then).

Also, consider:

Black kids are resentful of police "Stop and Seach" tactics not extended to other ethnic groups. There was an existing atmosphere of resentment long before anyone had ever heard of Mark Duggan.

This background will doubtless be mentioned in the official inquiry's report.

A closing thought from Sir Arthur Streeb-Greebling (aka Peter Cook) on the LA riots following the Rodney King incident:

"One hates to see Los Angeles go up in flames unless one has a camera running".

Ya know Eddie...at another website, I had some headcase follow me arround and no matter what I said they disagreed with it. There are exceptions to every rule and if you didn't get the jist of what I was saying thats to bad, yet by your own admission you understood the Goverment was heavy handed. So why don't you put me on shun and just leave me alone ya little ultraliberal. Maybe you want to support and excuse these domestic terrorist actions BUT not me...I hope they all go to jail and for along time. Than they'll think twice the next time they want to attack a police officer or destory other peoples property.

Hey...did I tell you about when I went to London, how I was detained at the airport for a secondary screening / questioning all because of my very Irish sounding name. This was back when there was some extra IRA goings on. The area where I come from was active in supplying weapons and $$$ to the IRA which migtha explained why they gave me a double take.

BTW: you know what, I didn't tell them Englanders about my great grandfather having his bar confiscated by 'The Crown' because of his Irish Nationist activities. They wanted to put him jail but he sliped away ! His PUB was called The Star of Erin and was in Liverpool...from where he escaped to America with nothing but a suitcase, a Bible and a anvil.

Very surreal to see my home town of Ealing being trashed, burned and looted last night.

The nearest the riots have impinged on my present domicile to the east of the city was when Bethnal Green received a comparable make-over about the same time Ealing Broadway was going up in flames.

Even more serious arson and looting in Croydon (South London) and Enfield (north London) where the Sony distribution building went up in flames.

Trouble in Amy Winehouse's old turf: Camden Town.

Woolwich Docklands Light Railway station trashed and the town centre burned and looted.

Rioting has spread to Birmingham, Liverpool, Nottingham and Twoodytown (Bristol).

Prime Minister David Cameron has cut short his vacation to fly back to England to chair a meeting of the emergency committee COBRA. Is the Army going to be called in to assist the police?

Latest AOL report:

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Cameron returns as violence spreads
August 09, 2011


A police officer helps an injured colleague as rioters gathered in Croydon, south London (AP)

Three people have been arrested on suspicion of the attempted murder of a police officer after riots spread across England.

The Prime Minister was forced to return early from holiday to deal with the escalating crisis.

Scenes of widespread looting, violence and arson were seen not only in London, where riots began on Saturday night, but in other major cities including Liverpool and Birmingham.

The worst rioting in decades led to the arrest of hundreds of people, as streets were turned into war zones.

Scotland Yard said the three people were apprehended following an incident in Brent, north west London, that led to a police officer being injured by a car while trying to stop looters.

Police and emergency services were overwhelmed by a third consecutive night of trouble, with riots starting in London in the daylight hours of Monday.

David Cameron flew back to Britain to chair the Government's emergency committee Cobra and meet police chiefs, having been on a family holiday to Tuscany. Downing Street said Mr Cameron will meet Home Secretary Theresa May and Acting Scotland Yard Commissioner Tim Godwin before chairing the Cobra meeting at 9am.

Scotland Yard said 334 people had been arrested, 69 people charged and two cautioned in connection with the rioting and looting across London. West Midlands Police arrested about 100 people in Birmingham after youths went on the rampage in the city centre's retail area, near the Bullring shopping mall.

Cars were set alight in Liverpool, and police officers were pelted with makeshift weapons including golf clubs as they tried to contain the gangs. In Bristol, residents were urged to avoid the city centre by Avon and Somerset Police after 150 rioters hit the streets.

Nottinghamshire Police said officers dealt with a number of sporadic disturbances in the St Anne's area of Nottingham overnight, arresting a boy of 16 and a 20-year-old. In Kent, five people were arrested by police following trouble in the Medway area. The force said fires had been set across Chatham, Rainham and Gillingham overnight.

AOL

'War zone' on capital's streets

August 09, 2011


A fire-fighter walks past a burning property near Reeves Corner, Croydon

Terrified witnesses of the rioting have compared scenes to a war zone.

Onlookers in Peckham said they feared for their lives as people struggled to get through to emergency services by phone.

Police took more than five minutes to answer a 999 call placed by a witness who saw three youths break into a shop. Fireworks were thrown at police as they continued to disperse the crowd.

Elizabeth Bonner, 42, from central London, said: "It's shocking and very scary.

"The Government shouldn't cut down on the police numbers. There's old people around and they can't get home. It's not right."

Teacher Matthew Yeoland, 43, said: "There's been tension for a long time. The kids aren't happy. They hate the police."

One commuter from East Dulwich, who gave his name only as Jack, described the scene in Peckham as a "war zone".

He said: "I was on the 12 bus coming into Peckham and eight police vans streamed past. Then a load of people wearing bandannas went in the other direction and I saw a group of people standing around a petrol container.

"The bus stopped and there was loads of screaming and shouting. I looked out of the window and there was a bunch of lads who were pushing a big industrial bin towards our bus. It crashed into the side and the window shattered. There was a few people crying. The driver didn't want to open the doors but a few people forced them open so they could get out."

He added: "Outside the fire station there was a bus on fire. There was thick smoke everywhere. It looked like a war zone."

AOL

they have all gone f***in crazy......









perhaps the worst part is that the rest of the world is watching and might copycat them.....


the government here cuts back on service people also, i hope they are taking notice


not that i know much about all of this anyway.

Maybe a big fuzzy ultraliberal hug might bring them to their sences !

^^^^

maybe, but i wouldn't count on it.


lol

This is the most recent map I can find online of the latest London riot locations:

tatiana wrote:they have all gone f***in crazy......


:whut

Former London Labour Mayor Ken Livingstone has at least offered an analysis of what's happening that goes beyond the expected knee-jerk responses from other politicians with their jobs and reputations on the line.

He points to the cuts in police numbers I mentioned earlier in this thread.

He also points out that a generation now faces the worst prospects for young people for over 100 years.

Disorder on this scale does not happen without underlying causes, and Livingstone's analysis nails a couple of pertinent factors at work here, I think.

eddie wrote:
Former London Labour Mayor Ken Livingstone has at least offered an analysis of what's happening that goes beyond the expected knee-jerk responses from other politicians with their jobs and reputations on the line.

To be fair, from what I've seen, I haven't really seen any of these knee-jerk responses from politicians that you talk about. Sometimes the opposite: I've just seen the Home Secretary rejecting demands to get the army in.
All I've just seen is a load of disconnected politicians condemning these shits who are running around looting and burning stuff. What else can they realistically do?!

I think Ken's comments on the situation were pretty much a disgrace. If I was a Londoner, he would have lost my vote. Which, considering how vile a man he is, that really is saying something. He's trying to make these riots about the cuts, they are nothing about the cuts. Of course it is about disillusioned youths who feel they have no future etc etc... but we know that, cuts or no cuts.

The riots have spread elsewhere in the UK, including Bristol. I've been kept up most of the night by sirens and helicopters.

One thing that plays a huge role in this is social media/blackberry's etc. It's just so much easier to organise unrest now than it was 10 years ago.

Now I know how bad things really are...in the old days wouldn't this cause riots with them there Englanders:

By Matt Lawton and Paul Newman

England’s football and cricket teams found themselves caught up in Britain’s riot madness. Fabio Capello’s footballers are waiting to hear if their first friendly of the season, against Holland at Wembley on Wednesday, will be called off because of trouble across London, including in nearby Harlesden and Brent Cross. A decision will be made this morning and the match is likely to be scrapped on police advice.

The cricketers, who are due to begin the third Test against India at Edgbaston on the same day, were locked in their Birmingham city centre hotel as a safety precaution as trouble flared on the streets outside on Tuesday. A West Midlands police spokesman said at this stage there is no reason to suggest the Test will not go ahead. West Ham, Crystal Palace and Charlton postponed the League Cup ties they were due to host on Tuesday against Aldershot, Crawley and Reading respectively on police advice as the disorder spread. Bristol City's match against Swindon has also been called off after problems in the city.

West Ham said in a statement: ‘The club were contacted this evening and told all major public events in London were to be rearranged because of the need to focus police resources elsewhere.’ Police will hold meetings with the Football Association before making a decision over whether they have the resources to deal with a massive Wembley crowd for the England game. More than 70,000 tickets have been sold for the game, but allowing hoardes of football fans to gather in an area already scarred by riots poses significant security risks.
The trouble is putting a massive strain on the Metropolitan Police, and a spokesman said: ‘Every football match is subject to some form of assessment around police resources and this game is no different.’

Holland’s players are due to fly from Amsterdam airport at 10am on Tuesday. England’s cricketers found themselves as spectators — and Twitter commentators — as trouble began around their Birmingham hotel. Kevin Pietersen posted a photograph on his Twitter account showing lines of police protecting a building and said: ‘they have just locked our hotel in Birmingham. Riots just started here.. Insane!!’
Bowler Tim Bresnan said on his Twitter account: ‘Just seen the rioters in Birmingham fleeing down the main street followed by a load of police in the full get up. What’s going on?’ All-rounder Stuart Broad added on Twitter: ‘Police vans all around Birmingham where we are right now.’

The India team, who were attending a function in Birmingham City Hall, were closer to the troubles and also returned hastily to their base in the Marriott hotel at the end of Broad Street. England’s players were not under any sort of curfew earlier in the evening, and several had gone out to meet friends in restaurants or bars near to their Hyatt Regency hotel, close to the Broad Street area of England’s second city. But, at the first signs of trouble, the team’s full-time security advisor, Reg Dickason, got in touch with them and advised them to return to the hotel. Captain Andrew Strauss and vice-captain Alastair Cook were at a barbecue at Jonathan Trott’s house in the Birmingham suburbs but went back to the hotel on Dickason’s advice on hearing of the problems.

By 9.30pm all the players were back in the hotel, which had locked its doors and posted security guards in case of problems.
If the troubles don’t die down there will be more issues for the police in deciding whether they have the resources to let club football matches go ahead this week. Stevenage are due to play at home in the League Cup on Tuesday, and Saturday could pose even bigger problems. In the Premier League, Fulham Tottenham and QPR are hosting games, while from the Football League, Palace, Millwall, Leyton Orient and Barnet are due to play home matches. England striker Wayne Rooney pleaded for the trouble to stop. He wrote on Twitter: 'These riots are nuts why would people do this to there [sic] own country. Own city This is embarrassing for our country. Stop please.'

Clarence LeRoy Van Cleef wrote:I've been kept up most of the night by sirens and helicopters.

Twood, stay safe....
and sensible (if i may say that)

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid=207192798388318292131.0004aa01af6748773e8f7&msa=0&ie=UTF8&ll=51.536086,-0.056305&spn=0.39294,0.630341&z=10&source=embed

this is a good map for it

I hope Nashie is OK - she lives in Peckham

when I was living in Camberwell on a council estate (which was beginning to become more dangerous when I left with knife murders etc) I was very lucky to up sticks and leave, but that was not an option for the mostly black people who lived there due to the endemic racism in London

I'm so very glad that my little bother left his job at the BBC last Friday and is now in Cardiff with his fiance - flying to Ireland tomorrow to start a new job

he got out just in time (my mother lives in St John's Wood in a council estate)

Yes, I am OK. Really fed up with it though. My parents are close to the centre of Peckham and had clouds of billowing smoke last night at the end of their road.

Problem is most of these kids are getting away with it. What started as a protest is now purely looting. They know the police can't arrest all of them so they take their chances. What isn't being reported is that while the main crowds congregate on high streets smaller groups are looting local shops. Whilst everything was kicking in off in Peckham last night another group was stealing from Tesco's in East Dulwich and there was no police in sight.

I see it is now spreading through England and Liverpool, Birmingham and Bristol have also had riots. You OK Twoody?

Hi Nash, it is good to hear that you are okay.

stay safe.

...hope all is well with you too felix...

blue moon wrote:...hope all is well with you too felix...

Thanks, moonie. I'm far enough removed from the inner cities (and leafy suburbs) where all these criminal attacks on society are taking place. But Mrs felix does work in Central London, and we do have friends and relatives living in some of the troubled areas, so I'm not complacent. A friend living in middle class Wimbledon, South West London, posted the following account of criminality in his area last night:

I've been up at the end of the street watching hundreds of people smashing their way into the local retail parks and looting them. Surrounded by quiet and comparatively peaceful people pouring out of Next, JB Sports and Argos carrying bags full of stuff. No rioting as such, but some shops have apparently been set on fire in the second retail park, where there is Currys and PC World. There was one van load of properly equipped riot police in evidence, all gathered round the local petrol station, which they said people had tried to set on fire. So they were stuck there while the hooligans looted the retail park. A complete and utter cock-up We were passed by dozens of people carrying TVs and DVD players etc and heard some people discussing whether they could get into Jessops, the camera shop, and how the safe might be fastened down. Nothing whatever to do with any kind of political or other grievance — just opportunists taking the chance to go robbing.

Once the action was all over at the nearest retail park, about 20 police vehicles suddenly turned up — way too late.


An illustration of the total immorality of what is going on in this youtube clip (filmed, I understand, in Barking, East London, yesterday afternoon):

...oh felix...I can't begin to tell you how much that footage upset me.
...I hope you can encourage Mrs. felix to stay home for a few days.

I was going to add that I hope everything settles down in a few days, but watching that act of absolute disregard...it's going to take more than a few days, and more than wishing.

My heart goes out to you.

Thanks for the post Felix. I think if Mrs Felix is working in Central London she should be OK. The yoot are tending to trash the places that they live.

Your friends post about Wimbledon was interesting, as I don't even think Wimbledon has been mentioned in the news!!

Thank you Felix, Twood, and Nash for letting us know you are ok.

I wish LaRue would check in....or is she still in the US?? I can't remember when she said she was going there.

Take care, all of you!

UK shaken by worst riots in decades forcing Police to consider plastic bullets
Aug 9, 2011


Plastic bullets have been considered by police chiefs as a tactic to bring the unprecedented rioting in London under control.

Deputy Assistant Commissioner Stephen Kavanagh said Scotland Yard was "not going to throw 180 years of policing with the community away" as the prospect of using the ammunition for the first time at a British disturbance was raised.

"The use of any tactics will be considered carefully," he said. "That does not mean we are scared of using any tactic."

Meanwhile, the Prime Minister was forced to return early from holiday to deal with the escalating crisis.

The number of police officers on the streets of London is to be almost trebled to 16,000 to deal with the "sickening" scenes of violence of recent nights, David Cameron has said after flying back into the UK from Tuscany where he was on holiday to take personal charge of efforts to quell the rioting.

Parliament will also be recalled for a day on Thursday to discuss the developments, the Prime Minister added.

Speaking outside Downing Street after chairing a meeting of the Government's emergency committee Cobra, he said: "People should be in no doubt that we will do everything necessary to restore order to Britain's streets and to make them safe for the law-abiding."

Scenes of widespread looting, violence and arson were seen not only in London, where riots began on Saturday night, but in other major cities including Liverpool and Birmingham. The worst rioting in decades led to the arrest of hundreds of people, as streets were turned into war zones.

Scotland Yard said 334 people had been arrested, 69 people charged and two cautioned in connection with the rioting and looting across London. West Midlands Police arrested about 100 people in Birmingham after youths went on the rampage in the city centre's retail area, near the Bullring shopping mall.

Scotland Yard Deputy Assistant Commissioner Stephen Kavanagh said all police leave and training has been cancelled and "all able-bodied officers in the Met will be out" tonight, making it an "unprecedented" number in London. All police cells in London are full and anyone arrested now is being taken to surrounding areas, Scotland Yard said.

On the official Metropolitan Police Twitter account, Scotland Yard said: "In the next 24 hours there will be 13,000 police officers on duty in London."

Speaking on BBC Breakfast, Mrs May appeared to rule out bringing in the Army and using water cannon, saying: "The way we police is by consent." She also urged parents to take more responsibility for their children - some as young as 10 have been seen among the looters, according to reports.

Labour MP Diane Abbott, whose Hackney North and Stoke Newington constituency has seen a lot of the trouble, said a curfew should be imposed: "I'm not saying that it is definitely the way forward but it is something we have to consider. These young people, who seem to have no stake in society, are trashing their own communities."

AOL

^

Of course, the problem with this proposed tactic is that the first 14-year old killed by a rubber/plastic bullet will produce all kinds of weepy hand-wringing editorials.

It's OK to use such weapons in Ireland, it seems, but violent English youths seem to have some special dispensation.

As for Diane Abbot's suggestion of a curfew, how do you impose this in a 24-hour city? Do you arrest the milkman? Am I going to be banged up in the slammer when I'm en route to/from working a dead early or dead late shift?

It's nonsense,

eddie wrote:
Labour MP Diane Abbott, whose Hackney North and Stoke Newington constituency has seen a lot of the trouble, said a curfew should be imposed: "I'm not saying that it is definitely the way forward but it is something we have to consider. ."