Riots in London

eddie, are you okay?
Does it affect you. either at home or at work?

tatiana wrote:eddie, are you okay?
Does it affect you. either at home or at work?

Hi Tats.

Not my manor: I live in East London and the rioting took place in Tottenham, North London (I'm very glad that I don't work at Tottenham Hale Tube station).

I can't say that I'm particularly surprised. If you've been following my "Knife and gun crime in London" thread in this section, you'll know that something quite troubling is happening, particularly amongst young people in this city.

Also:

1. Hot weather.
2. School holidays.
3. Short-sighted cutting of youth provision by local authorities due to government cuts.

This was an explosion just waiting to happen.

Residents count cost of rioting

August 07, 2011


Riot police look on as fire rages through a building in Tottenham

Horrified residents surveyed the damage to their community after a night of rioting and looting following the fatal shooting of a local man by police.

Eight police officers are being treated in hospital after trouble flared up in Tottenham, north London, on Saturday night.

The violence came two days after a man named locally as Mark Duggan, 29, was gunned down by police in the area.

After a peaceful protest by community members demanding "justice", the mood turned nasty and buildings and vehicles were set alight.

Starting about 200 yards from Tottenham Police Station, the riots then spread to other parts of the local area and by the early hours of the morning, crowds of looters were smashing shop windows in a retail park near Tottenham Hale tube station and plundering goods from almost every store.

Teenagers and adults were said to have turned up in cars and filled their boots with stolen items, unimpeded by police.

Scotland Yard said later that a total of 26 police officers had been injured in the unrest, and 42 people were arrested for offences including violent disorder, burglary and theft.

AOL

The remains of a burned out bus in Tottenham following a night of rioting.

I'm glad to know that you are ok Eddie

tigerlily wrote:I'm glad to know that you are ok Eddie

I was never in any danger, Tigerlily.

London is a vast patchwork quilt of various districts (former villages absorbed into the "Great Wen" as it expanded over the centuries), so a 3-minute walk will sometimes place you in a neighbourhood of quite a different character from your starting-point.

My manor has its own problems (see "Knife and gun crime" thread), but no large-scale rioting here, as yet.

tigerlily wrote:I'm glad to know that you are ok Eddie

From me also....

The perception of Brits, both by themselves and by others, as a race of "Stiff upper lips" is largely illusory: it's all very well for excitable Frenchmen to indulge in this kind of behaviour- so runs the myth- but we don't do that sort of thing over here.

Ah! But every now and then we do.

All kinds of murky passions lurk beneath the apparently phlegmatic surface of everyday life- and these passions periodically erupt in spectacular style:





^^
The "Captain Swing" riots in agricultural Dorset, 1830-31.

...stay safe eddie.

Victim's family condemns rioting

August 07, 2011

The family of a man shot dead by police say they "are not condoning" the riots and looting that rocked north London, leaving 26 police officers injured.

The trouble flared up in Tottenham, north London, two days after Mark Duggan, 29, was gunned down.

It followed a peaceful march by members of the local community demanding "justice" for Mr Duggan's relatives.

Community and political leaders were swift to criticise the rioting, looting and arson that swept across the area after the protest by community members demanding "justice" for Mr Duggan turned nasty, with buildings and vehicles including a double-decker bus and two police cars engulfed in flames.

People were left destitute after being forced to flee their burning homes, and looters went on the rampage in a retail park near Tottenham Hale Tube station, grabbing whatever they could.

Scotland Yard said 26 officers were injured during the unrest, and 55 people were arrested for offences including violent disorder, burglary and theft. All the injured officers have now been released from hospital.

Mr Duggan's brother's Shaun Hall told Sky News: "We're not condoning any kind of actions like that at all. It seems to be the press who are generally saying that it is linked to my brother. OK, some questions were supposed to have been answered, they weren't answered, therefore there was a domino effect from that, we don't condone that at all.

"I know people are frustrated, they're angry out there at the moment, but I would say please try and hold it down. Please don't make this about my brother's life, he was a good man."

Downing Street called the rioting "utterly unacceptable", while Home Secretary Theresa May said: "Such disregard for public safety and property will not be tolerated." Meanwhile, Mayor of London Boris Johnson said he was "appalled at the scenes of violence and destruction", while local MP David Lammy also condemned the rioting.

While many local residents were dismayed, others voiced the fury that had fuelled the disturbances. One 18-year-old man said: "Police know what they should have done, they should have come to speak to the community themselves," he said. "They don't care. You get no opportunities around here. The police stop you because you're black. They stop you because you're wearing a hood."

AOL

and LaRue, is she okay?


or has she gone on her holidays already?

tatiana wrote:and LaRue, is she okay?

LaRue is a Oxfordshire resident who ventures to London every now and then, so I guess she's OK. Or very unlucky....

More riots in other parts of London on Sunday:

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London in grip of fresh rioting

August 08, 2011


A fire hose continues to pump water onto a smouldering building in Tottenham, north London after trouble flare on Saturday night

Emergency services have been dealing with disturbances across London as fresh bouts of rioting and looting broke out.

Police officers were being deployed to respond to "copycat criminal activity" across the capital, Scotland Yard said. The fresh violence comes after a protest in Tottenham, north London, on Saturday, which followed the fatal shooting of Mark Duggan, 29, on Thursday.

Disturbances erupted on Sunday in several boroughs in north, south and east London, with reports of trouble in Brixton, Enfield, Walthamstow and Islington.

Three officers were taken to hospital after being hit by a fast-moving vehicle at 12.45am on Monday, a Metropolitan Police spokesman said. The officers had been in the process of making arrests in Chingford Mount, Waltham Forest, after a shop was looted by youths.

Meanwhile, a fight broke out when rival gangs attended King's College Hospital after two victims of minor stabbings were admitted, police said. The hospital has brought in extra security for the rest of the night and officers remain on scene dealing with the initial stabbings, the spokesman added.

Six fire engines were dispatched to deal with a blaze at a Foot Locker shop in Brixton, south London, and witnesses saw riot police clash with looters at a Currys store nearby.

Press Association photographer Lewis Whyld described the scenes at a Currys store, also in Brixton. He said: "A couple of 100 youths were rioting and looting. Riot police went in to get them out and there was a big fight in the street. Youths were throwing rocks and bottles and there was a bin on fire. They used a fire extinguisher to push the police back so they could get back into Currys and continue taking things out."

Elsewhere, more than 30 youths, many in masks, vandalised and looted shops in Walthamstow Central, including BHS. "Officers attended the area and the situation is currently under control. Groups of youths are continuing to target shops in Waltham Forest and officers are on scene," the spokesman said.

Police Commander Christine Jones, said: "Officers responding to sporadic disorder in a number of boroughs made more than 100 arrests throughout last night and early this morning. This is in addition to the 61 arrests made on Saturday night and Sunday morning."

She went on: "Officers are shocked at the outrageous level of violence directed against them. At least nine officers were injured overnight in addition to the 26 injured on Saturday night. We will not tolerate this disgraceful violence. The investigation continues to bring these criminals to justice."

AOL

eddie wrote:1. Hot weather.
2. School holidays.
3. Short-sighted cutting of youth provision by local authorities due to government cuts.

A couple of additional factors distinguish the present riots from those in Brixton and Broadwater Farm in the 1980's:

1. 20% reduction in police numbers due to government cuts.
2. Advent of "social networking" sites. If you can coordinate a rave in the UK or a revolution in north Africa with such tools, you won't have much difficulty organising a riot in a particular London borough.

What I find particularly striking in events such as these is how they are usually initiated by some demand for 'justice' and yet very rapidaly turn into something quite unjust.

Remember the riots that started in Paris in 2005 and spread out to a number of other French cities and to a lesser extend even other European cities. The immediate motive for the outbreak was the death of 2 youngster who had been elctrocuted after they sought shelter in a high voltage component - I have no idea what you call those things in English, sorry - while fleeing from police.
Eventhough one might already consider that the responsibility of these events does not lie (solely) with the police - they never forced people to act in such a way that police would be looking for them, let alone to seek shelter in life-threatening situations to escape from being caught -, one might feel some sympathy for the shock a community experiences when 2 young people find such a brutal dead. Yet how these sad losses are being amended for by putting fire to litteraly hundreds of thousands of cars throughout Europe is quite beyond me.

A few years ago, when Israel decided to attack the Gaza strip around Christmas, a peacefull pro-Palestina demonstration held on the 31st of december turned into a mass-riot of muslim youths over here in Antwerp. I remember having to walk home, utterly unaware of why there was no public transportation, only to get caught up in a very large mob of angry youths - as I am a social worker in an area where a lot of these guys live and often in a position in which I have to communicate unpleasant news to them, this really is not the type of situation I like to find myself in.
All in all I made through fairly easily, but images of the day after clearly showed the damages suffered by public infrastructure and privately owned commerce.
While I believe it to be a positive evolution to see youths sympathising with other youths that are suffering deplorable violence, I absolutely fail to comprehend how such sympathy is expressed by vandalising public and private infrastructure in a town that has very little to do with these events. (To be fair: the group had intentions to march toward a district with a very large Jewish population, but was held back by police to do so).

eddie wrote:Police Commander Christine Jones, said: "Officers responding to sporadic disorder in a number of boroughs made more than 100 arrests throughout last night and early this morning. This is in addition to the 61 arrests made on Saturday night and Sunday morning."

...At least nine officers were injured overnight in addition to the 26 injured on Saturday night. We will not tolerate this disgraceful violence. The investigation continues to bring these criminals to justice."

I hope the Englanders treat these 'suspects' like they would the IRA back in the 70's after all their both terrorist...one from the inside, one from the outside. Both believing thier behavior is OK...at least in thier own minds.

Riots in London have continued for a third day, with fresh outbreaks reported today in Hackney (North-East London) and in Peckham and Lewisham (South London).

It also appears that over the weekend there were incidents in Oxford Circus (Central London), Fulham and Chelsea (West London), Walthamstow and Dalston (East London) and Brixton and Denmark Hill (South London).

I'll try to dig out an online map of the location of these events for the benefit of ATU posters unfamiliar with London geography.

London's Tory Mayor Boris Johnson intially refused to interrupt his vacation to oversee the response to these events, evincing the same Old Etonian sang-froid that has made him refuse to speak to rail union leaders during his entire term of office. But the scale of rioting seems to have finally persuaded him that sticking your fingers in your ears and chanting "La La La, I can't hear you!" is an inadequate response in an election year. He's on his way back to the capital now to save us all.

Meanwhile, here's the most recent AOL report on the London riots:

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New violence threatens east London's Hackney

Aug 8, 2011


Rioting has returned to the streets of London as Scotland Yard beefed up its presence to deal robustly with looting thugs.

Police chiefs, politicians and community leaders condemned "opportunistic criminality" amid warnings of more widespread violence across the capital.

More than 100 people were arrested overnight and early on Monday morning after boroughs in north, south and east London fell victim to copycat rampages following trouble in Tottenham on Saturday.

As minor skirmishes broke out again between police and hooded youths in Hackney, Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg said "big scars" would be left from consecutive nights of rioting.

Scenes of violence in Hackney echoed those in other areas of the capital over the past two nights, with skirmishes between gangs of youths and police, reportedly prompted by a stop and search incident earlier.

Rioters, many wearing hoods and masks, were confronted by police lines spanning the width of streets, occasionally moving forward to push the groups back.

Officers in riot gear tried to control the situation, coming under fire from objects including chairs and pieces of wood.

At one point several people broke into the back of a stationary lorry, pulling its contents out on to the road, with some hurling it at police and others using it to smash windows of a bus.

Meanwhile, Mayor of London Boris Johnson is interrupting his family holiday to return to the capital to deal with the situation, it has been announced.

His spokesman said: "He will be back in London tomorrow lunchtime."

The announcment follows Home Secretary Theresa May's decision to fly back from her summer holiday in the wake of the violence and looting that gripped the capital over the weekend, mainly in and around north London's Tottenham.

The violence came after a peaceful protest in Tottenham on Saturday, which followed the fatal shooting of Mark Duggan, 29, in Forster Road on Thursday, 4 August.

The looting across London was carried out by "small and mobile" groups, Scotland Yard said.

In a telephone interview from his holiday location, London Mayor Boris Johnson continually referred to the man whose shooting by police sparked the initial Tottenham riot as "Michael Duggan" rather than his correct name: Mark Duggan.

This rather undermined statements issued earlier by his spokepersons that the mayor was "following events closely".

It appears that this young man whose fatal stabbing I recorded in the "Knife and gun crime in London thread" some weeks back:



...was Mark Duggan's cousin.

Understanding what is going on in these sequence of events is bloody impossible, no-one (the press) seems to know what the hell is going on... other than some wankers, yet again, have resorted to thuggery and opportunism.

eddie wrote:

London's Tory Mayor Boris Johnson intially refused to interrupt his vacation to oversee the response to these events, evincing the same Old Etonian sang-froid that has made him refuse to speak to rail union leaders during his entire term of office. But the scale of rioting seems to have finally persuaded him that sticking your fingers in your ears and chanting "La La La, I can't hear you!" is an inadequate response in an election year.

What his rival (Ken) has to say:

"I am concerned that there is growing social dislocation in London and a threat that the police will be forced into escalating conflict with some London communities. We do not want to go back to the 1980s.

"The economic stagnation and cuts being imposed by the Tory government inevitably create social division. As when Margaret Thatcher imposed such policies during her recessions this creates the threat of people losing control, acting in completely unacceptable ways that threaten everyone, and culminating in events of the type we saw in Tottenham.

"Tories will issue knee-jerk statements demanding support for the police but they are actually cutting the police. That amounts to pure hypocrisy.”

This is the most recent map I could find of the scale and extent of the London riots (thank you, BBC), but it's already out of date because it doesn't include today's events in Lewisham and Hackney:

Old Mack wrote:I hope the Englanders treat these 'suspects' like they would the IRA back in the 70's after all their both terrorist...one from the inside, one from the outside.

You hope they'll bang innocent people up in the slammer as they did in the 1970's to demonstatrate that they're actually doing something?

Do you know nothing about the Guildford Four, Birmingham Six and Judith Ward cases? All these people were wrongly imprisoned for alleged IRA bombing offences and spent many years in jail for crimes they hadn't committed, crimes they knew nothing about.

Do you know nothing about the wrongful imprisonment of Winston Silcott for the murder of PC Keith Blakelock during the last major riot in Tottenham? Demonised by the Murdoch press, it eventually transpired that he had nothing to do with the killing.

Yep, great idea. Bring back British justice c 1975. That'll solve everything.

In a nutshell, is this ish what's being reported?:

A man (Mark Duggan) is shot by the police. Duggan had a gun on him (is this confirmed?). Some say police shot first/were the only shooters.

Peaceful protests start against the police shooting Mark Duggan.

It has been reported that the police reacted aggressively to some of these PEACEFUL protesters, inluding a 16 yr old girl. These reports are unconfirmed (?). This of course means more protests.

A load of tossers smash the shit out of parts of London.