Things you wanted to say......

Yesterday at the high school awards ceremony, Madeleine won a $60,000 scholarship to Rennsalaer Polytechnic Institute. This school is right after MIT for selectivity in the country. It was the biggest award given out.

We are so proud of her!

Constance wrote:Yesterday at the high school awards ceremony, Madeleine won a $60,000 scholarship to Rennsalaer Polytechnic Institute. This school is right after MIT for selectivity in the country. It was the biggest award given out.

We are so proud of her!

Congratulations Constance and to Madeleine,
that is wonderful, she must put a lot of effort into her work
you are lucky

Constance wrote:
It was the biggest award given out.
We are so proud of her!

oh constance. That's wonderful, The person to be proud of is YOU (including, of course, your husband).
I remember the haikus you wrote about doing homework with your children...that's where it all starts.
Congratulations to all of you

Thank you Tatiana and Moony!

All three girls are very compliant about working hard and achieving but they are not stressed or competitive like some of their peers.

The teachers at Chinese school just smile and smile and give out tons of homework. Julia gets 6 tough pages a week. We do a page every night and sometimes a single page takes an hour or more.

Madeleine will graduate from Chinese school in January and I'm pretty sure she'll be the first non-native speaker to graduate in the 35 years the school has existed.

That actually brings tears to my eyes constance.
You've made my evening.

Wow, that's something!

Thanks for writing about this. It's been nice talking with you!

Constance wrote:Yesterday at the high school awards ceremony, Madeleine won a $60,000 scholarship to Rennsalaer Polytechnic Institute. This school is right after MIT for selectivity in the country. It was the biggest award given out.

We are so proud of her!

That's great news, well done Madeleine. We are all proud of her too

Nah Ville Sky Chick wrote:

Constance wrote:Yesterday at the high school awards ceremony, Madeleine won a $60,000 scholarship to Rennsalaer Polytechnic Institute. This school is right after MIT for selectivity in the country. It was the biggest award given out.

We are so proud of her!

That's great news, well done Madeleine. We are all proud of her too

remember when they were little girls, and you were just introducing them to us.
doesn't time fly.


Constance, as Nash said ... we are all proud

Thank you Nash and Tatiana!

Last night was Elisabeth's band concert. She played the flute.

Today is Julia's field day. Her class was assigned to wear a yellow shirt. The closest we have is a kind of orange and yellow tie dye with red ladybugs on it. Luckily she isn't balking about wearing it.

Does anyone remember the story of Chu Chen last year? She is a girl from China the same age as Madeleine. The girls played when they were little but went in different paths but her mother and I remain close friends. Last May Chu Chen had a nervous breakdown and was hospitalized for over a month. She is a beautiful girl who was adopted close to her third birthday and she was abused in China. Her therapist thinks that the early neglect and treatment have led to Chu Chen's depression and anxiety. Now Chu Chen does nothing but write science fiction on the internet. She is failing all her subjects in high school. She has the most wonderful supportive family and the best mother. Her mom Cindy is the best. We all feel powerless in the situation.

So Cindy is coming up to visit this morning and we will walk the dog. I maneuver the conversation so that she ends up doing all the talking and I ask questions (Cindy has two older biological daughters and they always provide a lot to talk about). Cindy has so much on her mind that she doesn't notice that I don't really contribute to the conversation. I can tell she is happy to be with me because when we talk on the phone she says a lot and I mostly ask questions.

So I won't tell her about M's scholarship. I haven't told her anything about M in a long time.

Constance wrote:Thank you Nash and Tatiana!

Last night was Elisabeth's band concert. She played the flute.

Today is Julia's field day. Her class was assigned to wear a yellow shirt. The closest we have is a kind of orange and yellow tie dye with red ladybugs on it. Luckily she isn't balking about wearing it.

Does anyone remember the story of Chu Chen last year? She is a girl from China the same age as Madeleine. The girls played when they were little but went in different paths but her mother and I remain close friends. Last May Chu Chen had a nervous breakdown and was hospitalized for over a month. She is a beautiful girl who was adopted close to her third birthday and she was abused in China. Her therapist thinks that the early neglect and treatment have led to Chu Chen's depression and anxiety. Now Chu Chen does nothing but write science fiction on the internet. She is failing all her subjects in high school. She has the most wonderful supportive family and the best mother. Her mom Cindy is the best. We all feel powerless in the situation.

So Cindy is coming up to visit this morning and we will walk the dog. I maneuver the conversation so that she ends up doing all the talking and I ask questions (Cindy has two older biological daughters and they always provide a lot to talk about). Cindy has so much on her mind that she doesn't notice that I don't really contribute to the conversation. I can tell she is happy to be with me because when we talk on the phone she says a lot and I mostly ask questions.

So I won't tell her about M's scholarship. I haven't told her anything about M in a long time.

you are a wonderful friend also constance, and very considerate


you are doing the right thing, just be there for your friend, she will talk, as she knows you will listen

i attended a child and youth mental health wellbeing conference today, and disengaged children and adolescents were one of the topics

plus (from my past experiences) your young friend would have post traumatic stress disorder .... relating to her abuse, and possible adoption insecurity now that she is older.
writing science fiction (or anything) is her form of therapy. in her way, she will be venting her problems. the therapist could decipher her feelings, and then treat her.
you should monitor as often as possible.... sadly, suicide is possible.

when you speak to her, the best approach is ... ask her if she is okay, and if she needs anything
usually the reply will be no.
then you just wait, and show her that you are available when she needs you.


take care Constance.

Thank you,Tatiana. Very wise words.

Sad to say, she is/has been suicidal. The crisis started last year when she took a handful of anti-depressants and tranquilizers that the therapist had subscribed. She was taken to the hospital to have her stomach pumped, trashed and kicked and has to be restrained and taken to the psychiatric hospital.

This is interesting - I don't know if I mentioned it last year. The crisis was sparked when she was ostracized on Facebook. It seemed she was flirting with a boy and the girlfriend got insensed and poured venom on Facebook and everyone joined in, even Chu Chen's friends. And this was a private school. Luckily there was a school alternative--the local high school--so Cindy put her there right away. But Chu Chen insists on staying home a lot and does no school work at all.

That was smart when you said about Chu Chen expressing herself through her science fiction writing.

The story is that in China she was in a terrible foster-home situation and then moved to the orphanage and was abused and negected. I remember when she first came to the US. She transformed and started speaking English within months. She was so adorable, and now this has all happened.

constance, is it possible that she took the extra tablets .. assuming the 'more might be better?, with the thought that if she takes more, she might get better faster or quicker'

but no, it looks like she was trying to die, she must be in so much mental torment and trauma. her treatment from her peers would have been the final straw.

the dear little girl, i remember you saying about the facebook stuff, and the school change

keep a close watch over her, they decide to do the suicide so quickly, and unpredictably

she also may not have the correct concept of how final death is, yes, she will want to die ... but her brain is not developed enough to see the 'big picture'

i am untrained and unqualified in the professional capacity, but i know these things
i attend workshops occasionally (today the first in a long time)

one topic i learnt today about the developing brain of the adolescent and their perceptions ( i knew it before but learnt more today) ... well just watch over her, anyway.

i spend a lot of time overseeing/helping/sitting with unbalanced people.

i would write more now, but i am so tired, and need a shower, the conference today was for 6 hours, plus 2 hours travel time.


just stay with her, either you or her mum, or some other trusted person
she needs to be conselled for her abusive past, and she needs to be given her confidence back regarding friends again
that would have been horrifying, to be attacked by everyone
cyber bullying.
she will need to relearn her self esteem and so on.


how old is she? 16 .. 17
my youngest is in grade 12 this year, and he is just turned 17

anyway, that is very young for her to be in charge of her medications.

the kids here are taught to use music, art and writing as a huge part of their therapy
it is the easiest way for people to 'vent'


and please, don't think of yourselves as powerless. communication will be the key
let her know you are there to talk with, smile to her, make her feel useful and needed
she has had a rotten time with her friends.... her trust in people has been taken away
she would have memories of her past, but that was gone, not in her life now
this facebook thing, that is in her 'now'

I wish I had a friend like you to walk with, Constance.

Poor Chu Chen. Tats' comments have the ring of truth and I'm glad she's able to post such sound counsel.
I can only ever fall back on platitudes like "Life breaks everybody...but some come back stronger in the broken places".
I didn't find it at all easy being a mother and it's only inretrospect I understand mothering...but from my own experience I've always believed that the most difficult kids are the ones most in need of knowing that they are unconditionally loved.

thanks Moony


Constance. one of the topics for today was ... cyber bullying. specifically facebook


i will have a look at the handouts tomorrow and see if there is anything that i could post here that might be helpful to you.
it is midnight here atm

Good thoughts Tatiana and Moony.

Thank you Tatiana especially for giving me the direction about how to stay connected with Chu Chen. I was telling Cindy today about how twenty years ago I was going through a bad patch in life and my friend Susan Fox called me every single day for months (it was a very bad patch!) I have always valued her friendship especially because I think it was courageous in a way for her to keep calling every day and not worry that she was wearing out her welcome. She certainly wasn't. Sometimes I would just cry on the phone and she would listen. Things did get better.

So you are right that it is important to let Chu Chen know that we want to be right there for her. We have a pool and I told Cindy to make Chu Chen come and visit and swim. She will balk and complain, but if Cindy can, it would be good for Chu Chen to be around other girls, maybe especially Chinese girls adopted like herself.

And you are right, Chu Chen should not have been in charge of her medication. Her parents were innocent and didn't think of the risk.

Post-visit report--Cindy came at 10 and stayed till 4:15! A long visit. I gave her cake and tea, we went on a long walk with Ginseng and then sat on a bench in the shade. It was a lovely perfect day (rain predicted for tonight and tomorrow). As I predicted Cindy did most of the talking, a lot about her 32 year old daughter who has had a hard time settling down. After a career trying to make it as a singer and entertainer, she went to bartending school, worked as a bartender--leaving the bar in NYC at 4 am--can you imagine? Then she decided to go to Law school and she got into a good one, Fordham in Manhattan. She graduated two weeks ago but doesn't have any job prospects and has to start paying her enormous student debt in September. Cindy said she may have to go back to bartending! So Cindy has been worrying about this daughter, too, for twenty years, and on top of the career challenges the girl has had trouble with boyfriends. One stalked her after she broke up with him. So I heard a lot about that.

Madeleine called at 1:45 from school wanting a ride home and I told Cindy to come with me to pick her up and instead of just going home, she did! And then we sat on the porch till Elisabeth came home at 3. They talked. And then Julia came home at 3:45 and we all sat on the porch and talked. I think Cindy was reluctant to leave.

The latest on Chu Chen from Cindy: Chu Chen refuses to brush her teeth. Cindy says that when they're driving in the car together she can smell dental decay on Chu Chen's breath. Cindy's husband was to take Chu Chen to the dentist today and Cindy wasn't sure if Chu Chen would actually go.

And much worse than that, Cindy said that Chu Chen has carved a date onto her arm. Chu Chen calls it the date by which if she doesn't feel well she will kill herself. As I write this just now I'm thinking my God this is really serious. She is only 17 and Tatiana what you said about adolescents not seeing the big picture about death is very apt here.

Cindy said that Chu Chen's therapist isn't very helpful because the woman has so many problems herself. She is moving house and is in a crisis because her identity was stolen and the thieves keep maxing out on credit cards. Somehow the woman was stopped by cops who had a false bad record on her and they put her in handcuffs and took her to the station. Somehow she got out and got the thing with the cops straightened out, I forget how.

And Madeleine is so young for her age. She took the train into the city with a friend for her birthday. They went to Manga stores but the highlight of her day was going to Toys R Us and buying a nurf gun, the big plastic gun that shoots soft bullets. She and Julia shoot them back and forth at each other and at the patient dog like two 9 year olds. Then Madeleine will stop and spend the evening doing Pre-Calculus problems. In Biology the students started dissecting a pig and she took pictures of it with her phone. The pig has arms and legs and a head and everything. I think it's a shame but I'm not disciplined enough to be a vegetarian.

Well that was my day with Cindy and thanks for listening. The feedback got me thinking and I will actively recruit Cindy and Chu Chen to get together with us more (maybe Chu Chen will like the nurf gun?).

constance,
2 things ....

first, Chu Chen is in very high risk of suicide, she must be monitored and talked to immediately, but carefully.
do not rush her, or spook her
ditch the dopey therapist, find someone who is competent.
someone who has a background in post traumatice stress disorder and someone who understands bullying
the girl is a victim and needs someone to talk to her who understands her fragile mental health

she might not like swimming, it will be too body exposing.
walking and sitting with her are the two best things at the moment, low impact activities, low exposure for her.
not that you want to encourage her to hide, but just be aware that she might not want to be too busy
how close to you does cindy live, can you visit them
physical contact will be the most important part of her recovery

if she does not want to brush her teeth, while it is not healthy, and stinks ... it is not going to kill her, let her do it, let her be in control of when she does something for herself, she will get sick of having filthy teeth, and clean them...

choose your battles, is a very good saying.


Constance, i don't want to frighten you, but if she has a date carved in her arm, she has a plan.
you must give her other options, give her reasons to want to stay alive..
do not instruct or order her to do the right things, she will rebel.
she must see for herself that her life can still be worth living
she has lost her self esteem,.the boy, that is a big thing for a girl and then to be rubbished by her peers
her thought is if she can't fix her life, she will end it .... her brain does not have the capacity, maturity, ability, the growth , the strength ... to see past NOW.
that is where the adults help. we use our knowledge and experience to guide them.
you will not be able to restore her trust in her friends, she will do herself later
what she needs now is comforting, understanding, patience, unconditional love

she needs to be around your daughters. if possible explain to your girls, the help that is needed. so they are not frightened also
outings and laughter will create a stable environment for her
just as cindy was feeling better in your company ... so will Chu Chen.
sitting at your wooden table, all things to keep her connected

don't worry if she doesn't look at you, or if she doesn't anwser you, she is still alive, talking will happen
there is a possiblity she does not understand her thoughts also
you will have to learn to think like her, so you can help her decipher her thoughts

ask her to read out loud to you, what she is writing, she might not want to, but it will give her inclusiveness.
whatever she is writing... if she wants to keep it private, that is okay also

beyond blue ... http://www.beyondblue.org.au/index.aspx?
help skills for tertiary students http://www.beyondblue.org.au/index.aspx?link_id=4.1460

you must also be aware of her diet, it will get tricky if she learns that she can use food as a form of inner control also
do not put any pressure on her, just give her (highly supervised and monitored) space.


second.
carving (self harm) on yourself is simply a way of controlling what happens to you

it gives you better control over what is hurting you
when the person can't control what the external environment is doing to her, or when their medical health is out of control... carving is something they use to make them feel in charge again
they can control how much it hurts.
and when!

self harm also comes in the shape of tattoos, peircings, and lots of other carvings etc.
most of them are fine, provided the person is balanced etc


sometimes self harm does get out of control, the person intends to injure themselves, that is dangerous.
it leads to suicide
it can also be very addictive, going back to the need to be in control. when a person can't control what it happening by others, they revert to controlling what happens to them
that is one reason why people complete suicide, often they feel it is the only thing they will ever finish.


self harm is common, and once you understand why it is happening, can be one of the easiest symptoms of unbalanced mental health to fix.


i did it when i was 15, and recently my son josh has done it over Christmas when his life was spiralling
when it happened to me, they locked me up ... i was 'uncontrollable'
when it happened to my son ... i explained to him ... 'the controlling the hurt thing' ... he said i was exactly right, young sarah, his girlfriend, she said i was right .... then they stopped.
and they are both suicidal, my son in particular. i constantly watch over him, although he is becoming more stable now that he is getting a bit older (22)


i don't know if i am giving you the right advice, and i would certainly advise you to get 'professional' help but i can give you suggestions, based on lived ( and survived) experience


constance, what you said about your friend speaking to you every day, and never giving up on you, and always being there, and how their 'welcome' never ended, even though you could not tell them ..... thankyou so much for writing to say how it feels to be on the recieving side of a chatterbox, someone who just keeps talking until the unwell person got up, had a shave and faced the world, although the trip is far from over, it is one tiny step at a time, with lots to go ... you have made helped me in a way that i never expected ..
it is not just the children and young people who are screwed up, believe me.
and just to say, the damage done in a childhood, when left unfixed ... can cause breakdowns 40 & 50 years later.




i am so happy to be able to help you

i have to write a report of the conference for monday, so writing to you has helped me also

Toys R Us, a nurf gun, the big plastic gun that shoots soft bullets.

we have them here also, my sons have them ...
although 'toys r us' refused to sell them, or any other 'gun' toy.

Tatiana, you are very wise.

T.

tigerlily wrote:Tatiana, you are very wise.

T.

...and well informed. Thanks for passing on all that information tatiana.

blue moon wrote:

tigerlily wrote:Tatiana, you are very wise.

T.

...and well informed. Thanks for passing on all that information tatiana.

I agree

Tatiana,

I have read your brilliant email over and over and I went to the "blue" website and read the info under "young people."

I have been obsessing over Cindy and Chu Chen and it really focused me to come home and get your email.

According to your perspective, I have to say that Cindy is not as much in Chu Chen's face as you would recommend. Your advice is to be very active in support of Chu Chen. Cindy is just letting her "be" and letting her sleep all afternoon, get up at 7 and eat a bite, and then go back to sleep.

Cindy told me that she asked Chu Chen to show her her arm and that Chu Chen wouldn't let her. I wonder if Cindy should insist on seeing it.

I will call Cindy tomorrow and ask her and Chu Chen to come over next Saturday and walk the dog with me and the girls. Or if not that we can go to her house. They live about 40 minutes from me.

But my feeling after reading your email is that Cindy is getting numb to all the stress.

Thanks for sharing about your own personal history and your son's.

Yes I used to get through the days waiting for Susan's call. She had a special reason for being so thoughtful. She has a very severe bipolar disorder and was suicidal when she was sick. She has been stable for a long time. She has seen a psychiatrist and a psycopharmacologist once a week for over 30 years! She is very good about taking care of herself.

...oh Constance, I can well understand how Cindy could become numb.
There's just so much you can deal with before you just...stop. The fear of 'getting it wrong' must be intense.
I reckon the conference Tatiana went to would be a great motivator for Cindy (in the sense that knowledge is power...it might give her courage to act if she's hopeful that her actions won't make things worse).

You do need to be careful, the possibility of frightening the girl or smothering her with care is very real.
It is a fine line.

Try to think like her,
.don't force her to do anything, but at the same time you have to make her do what she needs to survive


I am busy just now but i can be back soon

Just a quick hello Constance.

Thank you for input, moony and tats.

Moony, what you said about Cindy being afraid of getting it wrong is exactly on target. Cindy talked about how Chu Chen's reaction to every word and action of Cindy's is that is Cindy is getting it wrong. Apparently there is nothing that Cindy can do that is right. Cindy said that negativity rules Chu Chen.

Madeleine slept over at a friend's house last night and I am picking her up in a few minutes. Then at 10:15 I leave with Elisabeth for her piano lesson. Julia is in bed watching The Night of 100 Frights on Madeleine's tablet.

I got up, got the bird out of bed,let the dog out, made coffee, and got the NY Times from the bottom of the driveway. I'll take part of the paper with me to read at the piano lesson.

Today I am counting my blessings.