Diabelli Variations

Hosni
King of Pop
Wed 13 Oct - 6:21

The grandest of all piano compositions. Of course, one can disagree, but one would be wrong.

The questions remains, did Beethoven's late period make all subsequent western music (until the coming of Kanye West) redundant and pointless? Will a day come when science will verify that Beethoven's late period musics resonate with the cosmos more fully than any other musics?

Hosni
King of Pop

Beathoven considered it worhtless guff, just some shoddy doodlings.


pinhedz

That theme Diabelli wrote was very generic, and rather dour.

The variation format is very limiting--no matter how much you diddle with the same 32 bars, it eventually gets teedjus.

Rachmaninoff was more successful with his "Rhapsody on a theme by Paganini."


pinhedz

U. S. Christmas wrote:Will a day come when science will verify that Beethoven's late period musics resonate with the cosmos more fully than any other musics?

It's not a matter of "if," the only question is "when."


Hosni

You're being unfairly dismissive of the Diabelli Variations. What's happening here is a quotidian lump of clay is being remodeled into every possible permutation, sometimes meta-ironically. See the clay transform into an insolent wretch, or a conquering hero, or a sanctimonious magistrate. Granted, this is no Große Sonate für das Hammerklavier; the Diabelli Variations is nothing less than an expression of the potentialities of mankind.


Hosni

It's also a useful aural portal into Beethoven's mood swings and booze consumption.


pinhedz

U. S. Christmas wrote:... the Diabelli Variations is nothing less than an expression of the potentialities of mankind.

Maybe I need to listen again--I was still young and immature last time I listened to them.

pinhedz

As you no doubt already know, the Diabelli variations were turned into a play by Moises Kaufman. The play, entitled 33 Variations was performed at the Arena Stage in Washington DC in 2007.






pinhedz

I would suggest that Beethoven's Arietta: Adagio Molto semplice e cantablile from Beethoven's Sonata in C minor, opus 111, is a much finer example of a theme with variations:




Hosni

I haven't really listened that much to the Diabellis. But there are some piano comp sexperts who consider it major, major shit (and I don't mean major key garbage, I mean like totally important stuff).


pinhedz

U. S. Christmas wrote wrote:I haven't really listened that much to the Diabellis. But there are some piano comp sexperts who consider it major, major shit (and I don't mean major key garbage, I mean like totally important stuff).

I suppose maybe it is, because it's so comprehensive and exhaustive, but it seems so academic. I suppose you need to study it in order to be a serious pianist, the way violinists have to study Carl Flesch's book of scales and arpeggios.


pinhedz

Diabelli's theme isn't even very original--it's a Sarabande, isn't it?

It's history goes back to some ancient Italian dances, like this:




And all the violin students have to play this version:




And Stanley Kubrick used this version:






Hosni

I think that's partly what excites the sexperts - Beety transforming the pathetic duckling theme into a splendid, multi-tentacled Doom Goose or what have you.


pinhedz

... while Beethoven gritted his teeth and thought: "The things I have to do for money."


pinhedz

The list of illustrious names that have denounced the pinhedz comments on the Diabelli variations might be intimidating to some people:

-- Donald Francis Tovey
-- Alfred Brendel
-- Arnold Schoenberg
-- Maynard Solomon
-- William kinderman

On the other hand, Martin Cooper writes, "The variety of treatment is almost without parallel, so that the work represents a book of advanced studies in Beethoven's manner of expression and his use of the keyboard, as well as a monumental work in its own right."

Isn't that similar to what I said, that's it's comprehensive and exhaustive, like a set of exercises?

And Hans Von Bülow called it "a microcosm of Beethoven's work"--isn't that close to what Copper and I are saying?

The only commentator who gives me pause, and makes me want to reconsider, is Arnold Schoenberg, who said: "the Diabelli Variations, in respect of its harmony, deserves to be called the most adventurous work by Beethoven."

Adventurous harmony? I'd have said that about the Grosse Fugue, or the opus 111 variations.

Possibly I need to give the Diabelli Variations another listen (since I haven't listened to them in over 30 years).

.

ah, some: