What do IQ tests really measure? The answer might surprise you--or not

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What do IQ tests really measure? The answer might surprise you--or not

Post  pinhedz on Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:08 pm

It's a good day when one learns something new. Very Happy 

It turns out that there is conclusive proof that non-genetic factors can bring about changes in IQ test performance that are greater than the black-white gap in average test scores.

The proof is in the so-called "Flynn effect."

Apart from the fact that the Flynn effect seriously undermines the credibility of IQ tests as a measure of even overall intelligence, it shows that performance on IQ tests improved at an incredible rate during the 20th century, and this is a change that cannot be attributed to genetic factors.

Based on the Flynn effect, if today's blacks--performing as they do on IQ tests today--could go back in time 50 years and take an IQ test, they would easily beat the average white test subject of that period.

The most plausible explanation for the Flynn effect is that IQ tests mostly measure the test subjects' ability to cope with formal education and to take standardized tests. Those are abilities that no doubt would show correlation with inherited traits, but apparently those abilities can also be strongly influenced by social factors.

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Re: What do IQ tests really measure? The answer might surprise you--or not

Post  pinhedz on Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:26 pm

It's not surprising that IQ scores correlate well with academic performance and future success in the job market, but they might also correlate with a lack of original ideas.  

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Re: What do IQ tests really measure? The answer might surprise you--or not

Post  pinhedz on Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:53 am

The Flynn effect is fascinating, because it suggests that in the past people scored lower on IQ tests because they rejected the hypotheticals.  They refused to accept the ground rules, they wouldn't "play the game."

It's not surprising that IQ scores correlate well with academic performance and success in the job market.  The bad news is that they might also correlate with a lack of original thinking and innovation--because it's a conventional-thinking test.

This is also related to the Peter principle, and what happens if you're smarter than the people trying to test you (you flunk--or you fake it).

Would it be racist to say that we're turning Japanese? Shocked

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Re: What do IQ tests really measure? The answer might surprise you--or not

Post  pinhedz on Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:17 am

Here's an example of the difference between the 1930s and modern times.

The IQ tester asks "If there are no camels in Europe, are there camels in London?"

-- the modern answer is "No" [correct]

-- the 1930s answer was "How do you know there are no camels in Europe?" [fail]

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Re: What do IQ tests really measure? The answer might surprise you--or not

Post  glue moon on Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:33 am

indeed

geek 

Football player Albiol was asked why he would visit Austria again, outside the Euro Cup? And his answer was "to see the kangaroos"  . But to ruin the fun, later they said it was because he saw them in a zoo


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Re: What do IQ tests really measure? The answer might surprise you--or not

Post  glue moon on Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:02 am

people comment it would have been better if we had listened to La Blasa


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Re: What do IQ tests really measure? The answer might surprise you--or not

Post  glue moon on Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:01 pm

But the pinhed can continue, I believe he was pointing how in the past low scores could just reflect a skeptical attitude about what they were told, right?

what I don't know is the use of it, apart from very intelligent people they say who could benefit from a different education proper for them. Trying to determine a score for the intelligence of people doesn't sound to me like the most intelligent of things to do
...but what can I say, I'm an artist and I'm hungry!

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Re: What do IQ tests really measure? The answer might surprise you--or not

Post  pinhedz on Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:00 am

eg wrote: ... but what can I say, I'm an artist and I'm hungry!
The more competitions you enter, the more paint they'll give you. What a Face 

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Re: What do IQ tests really measure? The answer might surprise you--or not

Post  u on Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:45 am

.




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Re: What do IQ tests really measure? The answer might surprise you--or not

Post  bluebottle on Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:48 am

pinhedz wrote:Here's an example of the difference between the 1930s and modern times.

The IQ tester asks "If there are no camels in Europe, are there camels in London?"

-- the modern answer is "No" [correct]

-- the 1930s answer was "How do you know there are no camels in Europe?" [fail]

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Re: What do IQ tests really measure? The answer might surprise you--or not

Post  bluebottle on Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:52 am

pinhedz wrote:Here's an example of the difference between the 1930s and modern times.

The IQ tester asks "If there are no camels in Europe, are there camels in London?"

-- the modern answer is "No" [correct]

-- the 1930s answer was "How do you know there are no camels in Europe?" [fail]
My friend Eccles telled me there are camels in London. He gave me this photo so I can remember that there are camels in London. I reckon my friend Eccles telled me right. You remember the piece of paper he gaved me what telled me what time it is? My friend Eccles knows things.

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Re: What do IQ tests really measure? The answer might surprise you--or not

Post  pinhedz on Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:20 pm

bluebottle wrote:My friend Eccles telled me there are camels in London.  He gave me this photo so I can remember that there are camels in London.  I reckon my friend Eccles telled me right. 
How is Eccles at hypotheticals?  

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Re: What do IQ tests really measure? The answer might surprise you--or not

Post  bluebottle on Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:05 pm

I askeded my friend Eccles what you said. He said who's this pinhead and what's he mean. He writted it down on this piece of paper so I wouldn't forget.

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Re: What do IQ tests really measure? The answer might surprise you--or not

Post  pinhedz on Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:51 pm

I was just noticing that the camel looks somewhat worse for wear. Suspect 

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Re: What do IQ tests really measure? The answer might surprise you--or not

Post  glue moon on Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:02 pm

eg wrote:I believe he was pointing how in the past low scores could just reflect a skeptical attitude about what they were told, right?
or maybe he was pointing how they just weren't familiar with the academic standards and the likes. You sound not familiar with it either

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Re: What do IQ tests really measure? The answer might surprise you--or not

Post  glue moon on Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:09 pm

that is it, they were skeptical about the standards having something to say. That's their rejection, "How do you know there are no camels in Europe?"


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Re: What do IQ tests really measure? The answer might surprise you--or not

Post  .... on Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:00 am

?


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Re: What do IQ tests really measure? The answer might surprise you--or not

Post  pinhedz on Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:34 am

The premise "that we sort of know what intelligence is" is bogus.

I know kids that were fast learners, and they became very glib talkers at an early age (but with rather conventional substance).  And you could read a string of 12 numbers to them and they could read it back to you backwards (this is the type of thing one demonstrates in an IQ test).  These are known as "the bright kids," sometimes they skip a grade in school or get advanced placement.

Thing is, they might go through life and never have an original idea.

I know some others that didn't talk until they were 3 years old (because they were listening). These kids are known as "slow."  Einstein was in this category.

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Re: What do IQ tests really measure? The answer might surprise you--or not

Post  pinhedz on Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:27 am

I don't know if any of this is true--it's just stuff you can find on the WEB geek

"Einstein was slow in learning how to speak. His parents even consulted a doctor. … His slow verbal development made him curious about ordinary things — such as space and time — that most adults take for granted. His father gave him a compass at age five, and he puzzled over the nature of magnetic field for the rest of his life. And he tended to think in pictures rather than words."

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Re: What do IQ tests really measure? The answer might surprise you--or not

Post  pinhedz on Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:47 pm

The pinhed picked up this video at the other place called "Race and Intelligence : Science's Last Taboo:"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Ao8W2tPujeE#t=1180

And one of the things it shows is that the "taboo" subject of race and intelligence is still being argued, and that there are people with status and credentials (professors) on both sides of the debate. In fact, there are smarter people than Philippe Rushton on his side of the fence.

And the people on pinhedz side of the fence (like Prof. Flynn), do not claim to have proven Rushton wrong--they only claim that Rushton and his ilk have proven nothing.

You could argue that scientific investigation of the topic has no redeeming value (I sort of think that myself), but to argue that the matter is settled, and that the bad guys lost, is premature.

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Re: What do IQ tests really measure? The answer might surprise you--or not

Post  glue moon on Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:26 am

but if you think it's proven nothing, how could something that's proven nothing be disproven? If it's proven nothing the matter is not settled because there's no matter; isn't that purely unscientific, to build theories that hold as much evidence as don't? (that match the facts as much as it could be any other thing?)

(response from pinhedz post- video just seen partially)

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Re: What do IQ tests really measure? The answer might surprise you--or not

Post  pinhedz on Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:03 am

Part of it is that what Rushton said was not quantitative.

He didn't say "Black's on average are born with 18 IQ points more than whites," because that could be disproven.

He just says "Blacks on average are born less intelligent than whites." This could never be completely disproven, because it you proved they races are born the same within 1 IQ point, you'd still have to prove they're the same within 0.1 IQ points, then 0.01 IQ points, so you could never prove exact equality.

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Re: What do IQ tests really measure? The answer might surprise you--or not

Post  pinhedz on Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:56 am

There was a time when some nut cases got the idea of "genius breeding." You just collect all of the genius' together ahd have them make babies with each other, so that every generation of genius' will be more brilliant than the one before.

But there is just one (or at least one) problem--the breeders have to be smart enough to know who's a genius. Laughing It's like expecting teachers to know which students are smart. Rolling Eyes 

Teacher don't know who's smart--they only know who follows directions. Razz

So, genius breeding would accomplish nothing but production of one generation of teachers' pets after another.

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