Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Page 2 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Is the pinhed onto something here, or has he finally gone over the edge?

67% 67% 
[ 4 ]
33% 33% 
[ 2 ]
0% 0% 
[ 0 ]
 
Total Votes : 6

Re: Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Post  pinhedz on Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:57 am

Guillaume Dufay lived right in the middle of it all, and worked for the cream of mafia society:

-- The Malatesta mafia clan in Pesaro
-- The mafia clan of Cardinal louis Aleman in Bologna
-- Popes Martin V and Eugene IV
-- The Este mafia clan in Ferrara
-- Niccolo III, Marquis of Ferrara
-- The Duke of Burgundy
-- Duke Amedee VIII of Savoy
-- while retired, he still wrote music for the Court of Burgundy

Here's a jolly selection of renaissance ditties, with Dufay in the middle:

Jean Legrant (15.th century) " las je ne puis" 0:00 - 1:39

Guillaume Dufay (1400-1474) "la dolce vista" 1:40-3:13

Antonio Cornazano (1430-1484) "el ferrarese" 3:17-5:41



pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11694
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Post  pinhedz on Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:01 am

I hope you're taking note of who was paying for all this--it will be on the final exam. study

As you can see, it wasn't a bunch of high-schoolers twistin' the night away and buying Josquin's 45s with their paper-route money.

But there was also some output from Maestro Anonymous.

These reenactors are pretending that those preserved music scrolls were written for folks in thatched huts.

I don't think so. No


pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11694
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Post  pinhedz on Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:14 am

I think the pinhed was right about the patronage--although there does seem to have been more church sponsorship than I was expecting. scratch

Maybe it's because everybody with an education had to have gone to seminary school, and all the good jobs were for priests.
It was a weird time.

pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11694
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Post  pinhedz on Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:12 pm

Before we move into the Renaissance, I expect Andy to tell us what Jacques Le Goff had to say about Roman de Fauvel.

pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11694
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Post  pinhedz on Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:05 pm

The above-mentioned work--Roman de Fauvel (1310-1314)--is a very early work of musical theater, which tells the story of a jackass who rose to prominence in the French royal court.

It was written by French royal clerk Gervais du Bus (I wonder how the French royal court liked the play Shocked ).

The smart people say that the music is partly by Philippe de Vitry of Ars Nova fame.



****************************************************************************************************

But let's not fret about the medieval royal courts. It's time to move on to the Renaissance, which has so many more hummable tunes (not to mention The Birth Of The Blues).

pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11694
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Post  pinhedz on Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:26 am

pinhedz wrote:But let's not fret about the medieval royal courts. It's time to move on to the Renaissance, which has so many more hummable tunes (not to mention The Birth Of The Blues).
In the Renaissance, music starts to sound more like the kind of music a regular person would listen to, instead music for space aliens.

I think this is partly because music before the Renaissance has a numerological aspect, which led to certain harmonic intervals being avoided.

-- The old music had lots of 2nd chords and 4th chords (even numbers = good);

-- But 6th chordes were bad, because 6 is a satanic number affraid . Also, if you raise the bottom note of a 6th chorde by and octave, it becomes a 3rd chorde, so 3rds were avoided also.

This means that all the prettiest harmonies were avoided. Neutral

But that changed during the Renaissance. Very Happy

pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11694
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Post  pinhedz on Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:27 pm

I was going to make up something about the Renaissance--something about how back then the high-art music was played by amateurs, not by professionals.

Professionals were low-lifes, who played at dances and in bars for money, but amateurs were the true music lovers. They already had their money, so they played for love.

But if I said that, how could you be sure I knew what I was talking about?

So that my points will have more credibility, I will quote the revered scholar Hao Huang:

"In the Medieval and Renaissance periods, distinctions of ability between professional and amateur musicians were not at all clear:  the professional made his living with music, whereas the amateur-often of the aristocratic class-had the luxury of making music for the sheer love of it, and amateurs often outstripped professionals in the quality of their training and musical skills! ... The late Renaissance composer Gesualdo was an aristocratic amateur whose economic independence freed him to make audacious experiments with harmony, and-more recently-Charles Ives' profession as an insurance mogul gave him the financial resources to experiment boldly without worrying about pandering to the public or even to the critics. Amateur musicians, no less than their professional brethren, follow in the footsteps of giants."

pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11694
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Post  pinhedz on Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:30 pm

In other words, amateur renaissance musicians were what Jane Austin would call "accomplished." study

pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11694
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Post  pinhedz on Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:43 pm

Here's the thing. People that didn't have to work for a living would sit around with their friends and play stuff like this:




Why would they play that? Because they didn't have cable. Neutral They didn't have Youtube. Crying or Very sad

They didn't have ATU. Razz


Last edited by pinhedz on Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11694
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Post  pinhedz on Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:44 pm

Would professionals play stuff like that?

Of course not--no money in it.

pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11694
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Post  pinhedz on Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:39 pm

So that explains why it is that the course outline identifies the patrons, the performers, and the audience as all the same people--rich people with time on their hands:

pinhedz wrote:
Renaissance period (1350 to 1550)
-- composers: servant-class professionals and their aristocrat pupils
-- performers: royal and aristocratic amateurs and their servants
-- patron: same as performers
-- audience: same as performers

-- representative music form: dances and fantasia-like pieces

pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11694
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Post  pinhedz on Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:54 am

So, the label "Amateur Musician" used to be a very positive label: flower



While "professional musicians" were in the same class as chimney sweeps:


pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11694
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Post  pinhedz on Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:47 am

Any final comments on the Renaissance before we move on to the Baroque era? geek

pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11694
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Post  pinhedz on Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:48 am

In the baroque era, professional musicians were no longer in the same class as chimney sweeps.

They were respected for their skills, like a good cook or butler.

So they were allowed into the house, and got to eat with the other servants.

And, just like the rest of the servants, they had to dress properly:


pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11694
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Post  pinhedz on Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:36 pm

During the baroque period, the representative music forms were contrapuntal. There were no symphonies, because symphony means playing together, and "counterpoint" means "not playing together."

So they had "concerti grossi," which means two bands playing against each other. Or concerti for orchestra and solo instrument, which means one guy taking on everybody else.

pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11694
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Post  pinhedz on Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:00 pm

Like you can see here--nobody's playing together, they're duking it out--everybody looking for a chance to get in a few good punches:


pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11694
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Post  pinhedz on Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:07 pm

Counterpoint is different from polyphony.

Because polyphony means everybody is playing something different from everybody else, but counterpoint means everybody is playing the same thing--but not at the same time.

pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11694
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Post  pinhedz on Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:20 pm

So, if countermelodies are so important in baroque music, you'd think it would always require several musicians to play it, yes?

But--maybe just trying to prove something, Bach and other baroque composers wrote music for solo unaccompanied violin. Shocked

Here's is Bach trying to show how many different melodies you can play on one fiddle at the same time (if you stick it out until about 4:50, you can hear quite a few tunes playing at the same time ):


pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11694
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Post  pinhedz on Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:21 pm

Nobody ever played that better than Danielle. I love you I love you

Heifetz tried and did good, but not as good:


pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11694
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Post  pinhedz on Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:08 pm

J.S. Bach had a variety of jobs, starting out small and ending up more prestigious.

He was always a servant, tho:
-- court musician in the chapel of Duke Johann Ernst in Weimar.

-- organist at St. Blasius's in Mühlhausen.
-- back to Weimar for more pay, as organist and concertmaster for the Dukes music men.

-- Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen hired Bach to serve as his Kapellmeister (director of music).

-- Cantor of the Thomasschule at Thomaskirche in Leipzig, and Director of Music in the principal churches in the town, namely the Nikolaikirche and the Paulinerkirche, the church of the University of Leipzig.
-- Royal Court Composer to August III, Elector of Saxony.

pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11694
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Post  this and that on Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:35 am

blah blah blah
where's the drawing? What a Face



3:14 I was a cloud and had to turn and show my dark side flower Neutral

this and that

Posts : 316
Join date : 2012-10-29

Back to top Go down

Re: Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Post  pinhedz on Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:34 am

Well done--I'm up to about 4:10.

It's interesting that the Historia abandons the classical composers around 1910, and goes right into ragtime, jazz and rock.

pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11694
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Post  this and that on Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:35 pm

.


Last edited by this on Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:02 am; edited 1 time in total

this and that

Posts : 316
Join date : 2012-10-29

Back to top Go down

Re: Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Post  pinhedz on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:08 pm

Are we ready for the Classical Era? The era of Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms and Wagner?

pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11694
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Post  pinhedz on Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:31 pm

^
No one has posted any objections, so we will proceed.

Bach died in 1750. Nobody thought much of it at the time, because Handel lived another 9 years, and Bach's own kids thought he was a stuffy old fuddy-duddy anyway.

But ever since Mozart, and later Mendelllsohn, told the whole world was the greatest of all time, the music know-it-alls have been saying that 1750 was the end of the baroque era.

Some Italians insisted on being baroque composers all the way until 1803--but then the last one died.

pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11694
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Linkage between high-art music and social classes explained

Post  Sponsored content Today at 7:14 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum