Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:52 am

There are those who would say: "Pinhed--they're called 'Native Americans!' bounce "

All I can say is that if they need gas around the six-nations community founded in Ontario by Joseph Brant, they'll have to get it from the Red Indian:


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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:59 pm

The Keely Smith link broke. Mad 

Here's the same scene, but the Japanese cut off the part where the guy gets strangled by his own tie:


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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:00 pm

Here she is without Louis Prima or Frank Sinatra:


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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:05 pm

She's 82 now. Shocked 

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  Alouette on Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:55 am

Have been reading the history of the noble Hekawi tribe.
There are some existing pix - that provide great insight into their way of life.

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:42 am

It is the 400th anniversary of Pokahontas' wedding, so needless to say all of Virginia is celebrating. cheers 

Pocahontas does not have raven hair, so I suspect that some European genes were introduced into her line over the centuries.

Nonetheless, her mother lives on the Pamunkey reservation, and the Pamunkey are members in good standing of the Powhaten Paramountcy (I think that's something like a Confederacy).


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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Sat May 21, 2016 11:06 pm

The poll results are in.

90% of regular (non-elitist) aboriginal Americans think that "Redskins" is the coolest name ever for a football team. cheers

9% are offended.

1% don't give a tinker's dam.

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  Yakima Canutt on Sun May 22, 2016 7:36 am

actually, the 90% was "not bothered" -- i don't see any reference to "coolest name ever" at the WashPo Suspect

i saw that news item a few days ago and wondered how long it was gonna take you to cheers

tribal leaders spoke out, saying the aboriginal is the hardest group to poll, because there are lots of fake Indians out there, and they wondered if the WashPo did proper Indian Verification, (iVerify), or also say the 2% Indian gringo who goes around identifying as Choctaw for the restaurant discounts ... because you know, like a common site at real Indian pow-wows are tee shirts mocking the Cleveland Indians mascot

I visited the Navajo Nation last summer and the vibe I got was that those on The Rez were more concerned with what was going on at The Rez, and less so with what the white man was up to, (which would put them in the "don't give a tinking damn" cluster)

of course, the majority of America doesn't like the Redskins name, because we have a perfect intersection of the Liberal Outrage Brigade (i.e. the Social Justice Warrior - SJW) ... AND regular Americans from the regions of the other 31 football teams who just want turmoil and embarrassment to beset Dan Snyder's shitty football operation in Landover, Maryland What a Face

I will attend this http://powwow.stanford.edu/ next year and ask around what the prevailing sentiment is for palefaces calling calling aboriginals "red-skins"

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  Yakima Canutt on Sun May 22, 2016 7:41 am

Yakima Canutt wrote:
of course, the majority of America doesn't like the Redskins name, because we have a perfect intersection of the Liberal Outrage Brigade (i.e. the Social Justice Warrior - SJW) ... AND regular Americans from the regions of the other 31 football teams who just want turmoil and embarrassment to beset Dan Snyder's shitty football operation in Landover, Maryland What a Face


to that point, there was an episode of South Park (a show which usually mocks the Social Justice Warrior) that sided with the point of view of the Social Justice Warrior re: the Washington Racistskins -- why?  Because South Park chief Trey Parker is a Denver Broncos fan. Basketball

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Sun May 22, 2016 9:55 am

Yakima Canutt wrote:actually, the 90% was "not bothered" -- i don't see any reference to "coolest name ever" at the WashPo Suspect
I just think my way is better--do you always side with the WashPo? Suspect

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  Yakima Canutt on Sun May 22, 2016 10:34 am

pinhedz wrote:There are those who would say: "Pinheed--they're called 'Native Americans!' bounce "


yehbut, beyond poli correctness, there is the problem that if you just start talking about Indians, a conversant will often assume you are talking about India.  

and thus to say, "Indians, and I don't mean from India" becomes MORE unwieldy than "Native Americans"

so i am proposing a solution - Native Americans will now be referred to as "Nat-Ams" or simply "natams"


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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  Yakima Canutt on Sun May 22, 2016 10:38 am


tho as discussed in other Topics, the Natives are not really natives, but immigrants like everyone else. Just the first immigrants, or The First Nation as i think some say

so another terms could be "firsties"

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Sun May 22, 2016 11:02 am

Yakima Canutt wrote:yehbut, beyond poli correctness, there is the problem that if you just start talking about Indians, a conversant will often assume you are talking about India.
I have always been aware of that (after all Columbus thought he had made it to India Shocked ).

But there is yet another problem--that every aboriginal American I ever met (whether in Minnesota or Montana) professed to be an "Indian," and they exhibit no inclination to change for either PC or geographical considerations.

In my experience, if one simply says "American Indians" one time at the beginning of a discussion, the term "Indian" can then be used for the rest of the discussion without confusion (as for peoples from India, I usually have to say "he/she is from india" the first time--after that I can say "Indian"). Similarly, if we want to talk about "Turkey," it's not confusing as long as both parties know at the outset that the main topic is a country rather than a holiday.

Curiously, when people say "Indian restaurant" there is never any confusion. scratch  
Yakima Canutt wrote:
tho as discussed in other Topics, the Natives are not really natives, but immigrants like everyone else.  Just the first immigrants, or The First Nation as i think some say

so another terms could be "firsties"
"Firsties" will not work, I'm afraid, because America's Firsties are long gone. The "American Indian" peoples crossed over from Siberia around the beginning of the Holocene and pushed out the population that had been here previously. That's why when archeologists digging up bones are accused of "desecrating the graves of our ancestors" by representatives of contemporary Indian tribes, the Archeologists (sometimes, depending on the age dating) tell them: "These aren't your ancestors--these are people your ancestors killed." bounce

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  Yakima Canutt on Sun May 22, 2016 12:08 pm

pinhedz wrote: The "American Indian" peoples ... pushed out the population that had been here previously.


what is the proper Google search term query for this atrocity?  i am getting results for Siberian gangs and Christopher Columbus


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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  Yakima Canutt on Sun May 22, 2016 12:10 pm


Though I was able to learn that how and when the Americas were populated remains contentious.

But by using ancient and modern genome-wide data, we found that the ancestors of all present-day Native Americans, including Athabascans and Amerindians, entered the Americas as a single migration wave from Siberia no earlier than 23 thousand years ago (ka) and after no more than an 8000-year isolation period in Beringia. After their arrival to the Americas, ancestral Native Americans diversified into two basal genetic branches around 13 ka, one that is now dispersed across North and South America and the other restricted to North America. Subsequent gene flow resulted in some Native Americans sharing ancestry with present-day East Asians (including Siberians) and, more distantly, Australo-Melanesians. Putative “Paleoamerican” relict populations, including the historical Mexican Pericúes and South American Fuego-Patagonians, are not directly related to modern Australo-Melanesians as suggested by the Paleoamerican Model.

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Sun May 22, 2016 11:33 pm

Full disclosure: pinhedz claims come from the WashPo from long ago—before all that fancy genome research (and now I find out these claims are contentious?Shocked ).

At that time researchers were digging in Oregon, and the local Indians were protesting that their ancestors' graves were being desecrated. The researchers (being too polite to actually come out and say “Your ancestors killed these people,” instead said “These bones are 13,000 years old—your people didn’t come over from Siberia until 11,000 years ago”).

The claim (at that time) was that most of the Indians North of the border were of Siberian descent, and that the only exceptions were the Navajo, who were genetically distinct from all the rest.

Putting 2 and 2 together, the conclusion was that the population expanding southward occupied most of the continent until the older population had been crowded into Arizona and New Mexico.

Since I have found the WashPo to be in error before, I cannot rule out the possibility that subsequent genomologists have OBE’d the pinhedz version.


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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Sun May 22, 2016 11:45 pm

Yakima Canutt wrote:
pinhedz wrote: The "American Indian" peoples ... pushed out the population that had been here previously.
what is the proper Google search term query for this atrocity?  I am getting results for Siberian gangs and Christopher Columbus
There have been numerous occasions going back to neanderthal times when one population was "replaced" by another population. One of pinhedz professors flat out claimed that cro-magnon man was genocidal and wiped out the neanderthals. The real story might be more nuanced: Europeans are now said to be about 3% neanderthal, but it is still accurate to say that modern man gradually "replaced" the neanderthal population in Europe, perhaps in much the same way that Europeans "replaced" the American Indian population in the US of A. The white man killed lots of indians, but we didn't kill them all and it wasn't entirely systematic (although there were some recurring patterns). I've found various claims about how large the American Indian population was before the white man came--according to some claims we wiped out 99%.

I have a book somewhere (I'll have to check to see how old it is* study ) that tells a similar story about the rampaging conquests of the ancient Celts, concluding that they were not the Firsties in any of the countries where they now live (I have found that some Irish folk get their hackles up over that claim).    

Maybe the best Google search term would be "migration." geek

*Info dated 1964--allegedly the Celts "replaced" the "Round-heads" in Europe (even though I now see other sources claiming it was the Celts who had round heads scratch ).

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  Yakima Canutt on Mon May 23, 2016 9:33 am



would make an excellent movie:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/09/12/humans-and-neanderthals-had-sex-but-not-very-often/

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  Yakima Canutt on Mon May 23, 2016 9:44 am


from the Wikiontroversy Portal

The Oxford English Dictionary cites usage of the uncapitalized term native American in several publications reaching as far back as 1737, but it is unclear whether these texts refer to indigenous peoples or simply to persons born on American soil. During the 1850s, a group of Anglo-Saxon Protestant Americans used the capitalized term Native Americans to differentiate themselves from recent Irish and German immigrants, both of whom were predominantly Catholic. The group later formed the "Know-Nothings", a 19th-century political party that supported an anti-immigrant policy in the United States. The Know-Nothings also called themselves the "Native American Party" and were referred to in the press with the capitalized term. They hired the writer and orator George Copway (a member of the Ontario Ojibwa tribe) for some of their publications, implying that they intended their usage of "Native American" to include indigenous peoples.

In 1918, leaders of the Peyote Religion in Oklahoma incorporated as the Native American Church of Oklahoma. In 1956, Aldous Huxley wrote a letter in which he thanks his correspondent for "your most interesting letter about the Native American churchmen".

The use of Native American or native American to refer to peoples indigenous to the Americas came into common use during the civil rights movements of the 1960s and 1970s. This term was considered to more accurately represent historical fact (i.e., "Native" cultures predated European colonization), while activists also believed it was free of negative historical connotations that had come to be associated with previous terms. Fundamentally, the term native means "belonging to a particular place by birth", thus the term "Native American" can conceivably mean any individual who was born in America. Because the term Native American does not adequately convey the idea of a predating population, the terms Original American or First American may be more appropriate.

Between 1982 and 1993, most American manuals of style came to agree that "color terms" referring to ethnic groups should be capitalized as proper names, as well as Native American. (Critics argue that the typographical detail of capitalizing native to differentiate between the term's use for indigenous peoples and other meanings is easily overlooked in written grammar, and ineffective in speech.)

Other objections to Native American—whether capitalized or not—include a concern that it is often understood to exclude American groups outside the continental US (e.g., Alaska, Hawaii and Puerto Rico), and indigenous groups in South America, Mexico and Canada. The word American is sometimes questioned because the peoples referred to resided in the Americas before they were so named.

As of 1995, according to the US Census Bureau, 50% of people who identified as indigenous preferred the term American Indian, 37% preferred Native American, and the remainder preferred other terms or had no preference.



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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Mon May 23, 2016 10:45 am

Yakima Canutt wrote:As of 1995, according to the US Census Bureau, 50% of people who identified as indigenous preferred the term American Indian, 37% preferred Native American, and the remainder preferred other terms or had no preference
On the rez, the rezervation DJ comes on the radio and says: “Good morning Skins! It’s a beautiful day to be Indigenous!” evidently addressing the other 13% (who I suspect might be more than 13%).

You have made a good case for just how confusing “N(n)ative American” is. I sometimes say “aboriginal Americans,” supposing it to be less susceptible to alternative interpretations (but other pinhedz might come up with arguments to prove “aboriginal” is also confusing).

Breaking news: The WashPo columnist that was campaigning to force the football team to change it's name has declared that he will campaign no more, because as a white man it is not his place to tell 90% of the aboriginal Americans that he knows what's good for them better than they do.

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  Yakima Canutt on Mon May 23, 2016 11:34 am



we need to take a cold 'n' sober look at the WashPoid polling methodology- there could be a pro RacistSkins institutional bias because the WashPo has a financial interest in the Wash Racistskins NOT being totally shunned and denigrated




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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  Yakima Canutt on Mon May 23, 2016 11:36 am



uh-oh, it looks like the bright, studious folks at both Merriam-Webster's and American Heritage Dic have defined "redskin" as "offensive" ... they must have done their due diligence? ... uh-oh cherry

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Mon May 23, 2016 12:22 pm

Yakima Canutt wrote:

uh-oh, it looks like the bright, studious folks at both Merriam-Webster's and American Heritage Dic have defined "redskin" as "offensive" ... they must have done their due diligence? ... uh-oh   cherry
Those definitions have been a significant part of the stockpile of ammunition used during the campaign. The WashPo former campaigner says that the dictionaries should perhaps add an additional definition to the effect that "Redskins is the name of a football team in Washington DC." study

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  Yakima Canutt on Mon May 23, 2016 1:43 pm





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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:32 pm

By J. Chapman Petersen May 27

In June 2014, I did something politically unthinkable: I publicly supported the Washington Redskins.

In response to a court ruling that the team’s name was “derogatory,” I called David I. Ramadan, a Republican delegate from Loudoun County, and we agreed to form a bipartisan “Redskins Pride Caucus” bounce to counter the endless negative press against our favorite team.

My decision to come out of the Redskins closet was not a political calculation. I was a loyal fan who had watched the team unite the community in the glory days. I thought that the name-based criticisms were contrived and unfair and that the team deserved a public defender.

The backlash was immediate. My Facebook account was flooded with hundreds of negative messages. I was denounced as a racist. Others called me a hypocrite for defending the name when my own wife is a minority. The more considerate critics offered to “educate” me. The general reaction was that I had committed political suicide by defending the team’s name.

There was a silver lining: Old friends and acquaintances with American Indian blood had a very different reaction to the Pride Caucus, ranging from “That’s cool!” to “Hell yeah!”

Over the next year, I also began to connect with native tribes — and the reaction was overwhelmingly positive.

Through a Navajo-based radio program, I learned about the 505 Redskins, a Redskins fan group deep in the Indian country of northwestern New Mexico. I became friends with Eunice Davidson, a Spirit Lake Dakota Sioux who had fought to save the “Fighting Sioux” name at the University of North Dakota, and Walter Red Hawk Brown, a chief of Virginia’s Cheroenhaka (Nottoway) tribe, who came to a Redskins event in Richmond.

These new friends taught me that the name “Redskins” had deep roots in Native American lore, unlike nonnative terms such as “braves” and “warriors.” From my Navajo friends, I learned that the color red symbolized bravery and was painted on fighters before going into battle. The results of The Post’s poll showing that 9 in 10 Native Americans were not offended by the name was no surprise. Indeed, most native voices I heard from strongly opposed renaming efforts, whether targeted at a National Football League team or a high school.

It was remarkable that polite society was easily influenced by this pseudo-movement. Indeed, national politicians and media personalities, as well as a federal agency, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, became passionate advocates for a cause that was, at its core, a sham. Their actions and statements, such as the refusal to use the name “Redskins,” were based on a strange bit of 21st-century cultural imperialism, the desire to be sensitive to Native Americans while treating them as voiceless victims, not tribal members or even football fans.

This story deserves a happy ending. In January, I invited some of the 505 Redskins to see our boys play the Green Bay Packers in the playoffs. We met at a parking lot near the stadium, drank beer and grilled brats in the January chill. We took a picture with FedEx Field in the background, wearing the jerseys of our heroes: Kirk Cousins, DeSean Jackson, Ryan Kerrigan. It was not a political statement, just American guys celebrating America’s greatest sport and a team that recognizes America’s native tribes.

The Redskins may have lost that day, but I know that we won because we forged a friendship based on respect, not sympathy. Hail to the Redskins.

The writer, a Democrat, represents Fairfax County in the Virginia Senate.

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