Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

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Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:17 am

Chapter 10: Beyond the 100th meridian, part 1

Some stuff I've read might not be true. Hugh Glass was a real person in 1822, but some of what's been written might be stretched.

Hugh Glass was hired to accompany a fur trapping expedition up the Missouri river in 1822 (we're talkin' South Dakota and Montana). There were Arikara Indians and Sioux Indians in those parts. Sioux Indians got along with Hugh Glass and his cohorts, Arikaras did not (they had some kind of history, but I forgot what).

So Hugh Glass and his buddies were by a stream amongst some berry trees. You have to be very careful in a place like that, because grizzly bears drink water and are crazy about berries.

Suddenly Glass sees two Grizzly cubs. That's not too bad, if you also see their mama, but if you don't see their mama, you'd better look behind you--yup, that's where she was, lookin' out for her babies. She made a terrible mess of Hugh Glass, broke one leg and shredded his back, but, amazingly, he finally killed her with his trusty hunting knife.

Glass's friends sewed him up as best they could, and were going to stick with him until he died, but they were spotted by a party of Arikaras. So, the guys left Hugh Glass lying there and high-tailed it on their way. The Arikaras all gave chase, and didn't bother with Hugh Glass.

Back with the expedition, Glass's buddies reported he was dead. And he had better have been, because they took his rifle and knife and stuff. But he wasn't dead, and when he woke up he was plenty PO'ed about the rifle and knife. He soaked his back in the stream, and let the fishies eat the dead parts. His wounds got infested with maggots, which also helped prevent gangrene.

He set his own leg, fortified himself with bear meat, wrapped the mama bear skin around himself, and started crawling. He figured out that he was being watched. He ate berries and gophers and things like that.

He came to a shelter made by some Indians. There was an old woman there that was dying. It was set up as a sort of a shrine for her to die in. He had a nice chat with her, and he prayed some prayers from the white man's prayer book over her.

He could tell he was being watched, but they left him alone. He finally made it to (I think) the Cheyenne River, which took him (I think) to the Missouri River, which took him to Fort Kiowa, where he recuperated--200 miles from where he started.

He found out later (I forget how) that the old woman was the Chief's mother, and that the Chief was touched that Hugh Glass had read the words from the white man's prayer book for her.


Chapter 11, Beyond the 100th Meridian, part 2:

Meriweather Lewis and William Clark also went up the Missouri river, but they kept going all the way to the Pacific. The journey lasted from 1804 to 1806.

They went through Sioux Indian territory, but they were accompanied by Mandan Indians, who got along with white men better than Sioux. The Indians had horses by this time, which they were very proud of. The braves rode their horses and the women walked. The braves did not insult their horses by using them for pack mules--they used women for pack mules.

Early in the journey Lewis saw one of the woman pack mules leave the path and step into the woods. He asked one of the braves were she was going. The Brave said "She's having a baby--she'll catch up."

They passed west of the 100th meridian, but the Indians could live because they were hunter-gatherers and not into agriculture. But there were some Indians past the continental called "root eaters," who I suspect were harvesting potatoes. The root eaters were despised by the hunter Indians, who said that the root eaters only ate roots because the other tribes had driven them out of the good hunting areas.

In the course of the journey west, the expedition met Sioux, Blackfeet and Crow Indians. The Sioux were sort of hostile, but they avoided combat. All of the Indians wanted horses and weapons, which they stole when they got the chance. White men call this stealing, but I'm not sure how the Indians saw it--more like they were taking care of their people and giving lower priority to not their people (not sure they had a notion of private ownership).

The most valuable guide was 16-year-old Sacajawea, who was married to a Frenchman named Charboneau. Charboneau was not good for much, except he could turn deer into sausages. Sacajawea saved the whole expedition by warning them not to take the wrong branch of the Snake River, which would have doomed them all.

In the course of two years, the expedition traveled first up the Missouri River, then down the Snake River, and finally down the Columbia River to the Pacific. They finally ended at a place called "Cape Disappointment," but I forget why it was so named.

Here Sacajawea tells Lewis and Clark "If you go that way, you're screwed."



There are many pictures and statues of Sacajawea, usually either pointing at some distant point or holding a cute bebe. And sometimes she even points while holding the baby.



100 years ago, Sacajawea was much more nordic looking than she is now
(and she has a swastika on her headband Shocked ):


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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:09 am

In 1832, Washington Irving, then called the Indian Territory:

“Near by these was a group of Osages: stately fellows; stern and simple in garb and aspect. They wore no ornaments; their dress consisted merely of blankets, leathern leggings and moccasins. Their heads were bare; their hair was cropped close, except a bristling ridge on the top, like the crest of a helmet, with a long scalp-lock hanging behind. They had fine Roman countenances, and broad, deep chests; and, as they generally wore their blankets wrapped round their loins, so as to leave the bust and arms bare, they looked like so many noble bronze figures. The Osages are the finest looking Indians I have ever seen in the West. They have not yielded sufficiently, as yet, to the influence of civilization to lay by their simple Indian garb, or to lose the habits of the hunter and the warrior; and their poverty prevents their indulging in much luxury of apparel."

“In contrast to these was a gaily dressed party of Creeks. There is something, at the first glance, quite oriental in the appearance of this tribe. They dress in calico hunting shirts of various brilliant colours, decorated with bright fringes and belted with broad girdles, embroidered with beads: they have leggings of dressed deer-skins or of green or scarlet cloth, with embroidered knee-bands and tassels: their moccasins are fancifully wrought and ornamented and they wear gaudy handkerchiefs tastefully bound round their heads.”

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:13 am

Chief Black Hawk's Surrender Speech

1832
Historical Documents
Author: Chief Black Hawk

"Chief Black Hawk's Surrender Speech"

Black-hawk is an Indian. He has done nothing for which an Indian ought to be
ashamed. He has fought for his countrymen, the squaws and papooses, against
white men, who came, year after year, to cheat them and take away their lands.
You know the cause of our making war. It is known to all white men. They ought
to be ashamed of it. The white men despise the Indians, and drive them from
their homes. But the Indians are not deceitful. The white men speak bad of the
Indian, and look at him spitefully. But the Indian does not tell lies; Indians do not
steal.

An Indian, who is as bad as the white men, could not live in our nation; he would
be put to death, and eat up by the wolves. The white men are bad school
masters; they carry false looks, and deal in false actions; they smile in the face of
the poor Indian to cheat him; they shake them by the hand to gain their
confidence, to make them drunk, to deceive them, and ruin our wives. We told
them to let us alone, and keep away from us; but they followed on, and beset our
paths, and they coiled themselves among us, like the snake. They poisoned us
by their touch. We were not safe. We lived in danger. We were becoming like
them, hypocrites and liars, adulterers, lazy drones, all talkers, and no workers.

We looked up to the Great Spirit. We went to our great father. We were
encouraged. His great council gave us fair words and big promises; but we got
no satisfaction. Things were growing worse. There were no deer in the forest.
The opossum and beaver were fled; the springs were drying up, and our squaws
and papooses without victuals to keep them from starving; we called a great
council, and built a large fire. The spirit of our fathers arose and spoke to us to
avenge our wrongs or die. We all spoke before the council fire. It was warm and
pleasant. We set up the war-whoop, and dug up the tomahawk; our knives were
ready, and the heart of Black-hawk swelled high in his bosom, when he led his
warriors to battle. He is satisfied. He will go to the world of spirits contented. He
has done his duty. His father will meet him there, and commend him.

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:09 am

Good morning folks--it's a great day to be indigenous:


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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:00 pm

Robert Mitchum sticks up for Keely Smith:


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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  eddie on Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:37 am

I strongly recommended this book on ATUI:



Here's The Independent's review:

Every year in late June, Custer's Last Stand is reenacted on the high plains of Montana. When Custer led out the 7th Cavalry in 2003 - the year I witnessed it - the audience stood and cheered with turbo-charged patriotism. The men they were saluting were not the re-enactors they could see, of course, but the loved ones in Iraq they couldn't. Custer was then, and remains, the zeitgeist on horseback, the closest thing to America made flesh, in all its triumphant glory, and its shameful double-dealing.

For Nathaniel Philbrick - writing on "Custer, Sitting Bull and the Battle of the Little Bighorn" in the dog-days of the second Bush's second administration - his Custer, like the country he served, is "unabashed in his greed". Nor will any reader be left in doubt on Philbrick's attitude toward America's latter-day imperialism, which he presents as an extension of the westward expansion that cost Custer and countless others their lives.

But this does not mean he is prepared to boo and hiss Custer either. On the contrary: he acknowledges that, despite the flaws, "there was something about Custer that distinguished him from other human beings". Why else the book? To sum him up, Philbrick borrows a phrase Herman Melville used to characterise Captain Ahab: "All mortal greatness is but disease". The name of the disease we never learn; only its symptoms.

Among them may be numbered an above-average interest in Shakespeare's Julius Caesar, which Custer saw no less than 40 times when visiting New York. Since his best friend, Lawrence Barrett, was playing Cassius, Philbrick speculates that Custer must have cast himself as Brutus. In which case, Brutus becomes a prophet when he says: "I shall have glory by this losing day".

Back in Montana, as the simulated conflict progressed, and Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, Gall et al moved in for the kill, a cloud of dust occluded the battleground, as if to demonstrate what "the fog of war" really meant. It was a reminder that all eyewitness accounts of the massacre are doubly suspect; subject both to poor visibility, and the notorious unreliability of memory. Philbrick quotes a veteran of the 7th Cavalry (Custer divided his troop before the Last Stand, accidentally sparing many lives), who had begun to suspect that he had only been at the Little Bighorn in a dream.

In his attempt to make sense of that nightmare, Philbrick seems to have read every available source. His conclusion is that there really was no Last Stand, that Custer was killed not in defensive mode, but while still invading hostile territory. That Philbrick has, nevertheless, chosen to call his book The Last Stand is surely an acknowledgement that - when it comes to Custer - history has become legend. Sitting Bull and the Sioux nation (not to mention the Cheyenne) lost that day too, for the victory marked the beginning of their end.

Although the events described take place many miles from the sea, the Pequod and the Bounty are never far away (hardly surprising, given that Philbrick's previous books have had nautical themes). Not only did Custer have to subdue the Sioux, he also (like Captain Bligh) had to pacify his own subordinates; in particular ever-pickled Reno, and ever-resentful Benteen, who is quoted thus: "There are many excellent ways of finding out the disposition and nature of a man. I know of no better way than having to live on shipboard with one for a number of years... Next, in default of salt-water facilities ... campaign with a man in the cavalry ... Thus I became acquainted with General Custer."

To tell the truth, the Custer we get to know is not so far removed from the glory-hunter portrayed in George MacDonald Fraser's Flashman and the Redskins. Without old Flashy rogering is at a minimum, though Philbrick does not fail to address Custer's wandering eye, and his alleged affair with the sultry Cheyenne captive Monahsetah (to which he allows some credence).

But what gives Philbrick's book its greatest distinction is neither its CSI style research, nor its nautical subtext, but the willingness of its author to move beyond the evidence-based procedure of the conventional historian. "It is also my firm belief," he writes, "that the spiritual and visionary aspects of experience are essential to understanding not only Sitting Bull but also Custer and his wife".

Thus the cause of Custer's ultimate humiliation might not be hubris after all, but the bad karma created by the desecration of Sioux burial sites a few nights before the battle. Likewise, it seems that the Sioux achieved only a pyrrhic victory because they ignored Sitting Bull's injunction (vouchsafed in a vision) not to loot or mutilate their dead enemies. These quasi-religious flourishes nudge the book towards the bloody meridian that separates the quotidian from the world of Cormac McCarthy, but Philbrick's anger is colder, and his linguistic register considerably less apocalyptic. All, you feel, is not yet lost.

Clive Sinclair's 'True Tales of the Wild West' is published by Picador

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:19 pm

Custer was possibly not quite as big a fool as his movie self:


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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:20 pm

Also, I don't think Indian maidens ever looked quite this Serbo-Croatian-Scottish-Tyrolean. Razz


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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:49 am

RIP Maria Tallchief

She was an Osage (I believe Rhone is one also, although he did not say directly).

One ballet impresario tried to change her name to "Tallchieva," so she could pass for Russian, but she refused.






She was 88, and died from complications from a broken hip:


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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  Old Mack on Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:09 pm

Lab Rat calls me Chief Rain In The Pants. (prostrate problems...you know)

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  Alouette on Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:41 pm

Am really taken with the Iroquois, particularly Mohawks.
recently visited fully excavated Mohawk village, Fonda NY.
Matrilineal society, Women picked the chiefs?
Iroquois creation myth, females pretty much started things.

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:07 pm

Somebody deleted the "Smoke Signals" videos--but we'll fix that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_746709&feature=iv&list=PLFB871CAB65CE5F70&src_vid=kBEhz8vw2AM&v=uwcJaUaVfR0




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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  Alouette on Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:15 pm

great stuff ^
thanks !

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:45 pm

Alouette wrote:Am really taken with the Iroquois, particularly Mohawks.
recently visited fully excavated Mohawk village, Fonda NY.
The Mohawk got along well with the colonists before the American Revolution, but after the war they all had to go to Canada because more than half of the tribes fought for the British side.

Fonda is named after one of Jane Fonda's ancestors, who was an officer in the Tryon County Militia during the Revolution. The librarian in the public library said that Jane had spent a lot of time there doing research on the militia.

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  Alouette on Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:50 pm


Are you pulling my leg about how that town was named?
Also have heard that first blood shed in NY during Revolutionary war was shed in Fonda.

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:55 pm

I believe Jellis Fonda was a judge as well as an officer in the Mohawk Valley.

He fought against the Mohawks led by Chief Joseph Brant, who was British educated:


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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:56 pm

I don't know if the first blood was shed in the Mohawk valley, but probably the greatest quantity in NY was shed there.

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  Alouette on Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:16 pm

pinhedz wrote:I don't know if the first blood was shed in the Mohawk valley, but probably the greatest quantity in NY was shed there.

Was told by historian up there, that Fonda was place where blood first was spilled in NY, in Revolutionary War.
About 2 + hour drive from me.
Mohawk Valley & Catskills area so interesting. Lived in Schenectady for 3 years.
Dig it up there. Many Walmarts.
Lodging reasonable. Smile

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:10 pm

When I was in the area, I met a youngster named Karl Joseph-Brant Johnson, whose father--Ken Johnson--wrote a thick book about the Tryon County Militia.

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  Alouette on Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:23 pm


Interesting, I have to read about the Brant's.



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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:52 am

The old members (old, like Felix) have already heard this story, but a short recap will only take a sec.

My great-great-great ....etc. grandma once took a shot at Chief Joseph Brant, but she missed.  Neutral 

Brant reported to the British that he could not take the rebels' fort because there were too many armed MEN there.

In fact, the men were all 40 miles away trying to find Joseph Brant where he was not to be found (their intel was poor for the entire war).  So all the "men" in the fort were of the female persuasion. Shocked

In the movie, Claudette Colbert plays pinhedz granny. What a Face 


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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:59 am

ISN once chastised the pinhed for being related to Indian fighters. But, since the Indians were divided between the redcoats and the rebels, both sides were up against Indians on the other side.  There were indians fighting against indians, and they were all driven up to Ontario after the war--sad but true. Neutral

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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  Alouette on Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:05 pm

pinhedz wrote:I believe Jellis Fonda was a judge as well as an officer in the Mohawk Valley.

He fought against the Mohawks led by Chief Joseph Brant, who was British educated:


had to research the Fonda thing, >> http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~addams/other/fonda.html
Not that I doubted you.


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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:22 am

pinhedz wrote: ... the Indians, both sides ... they were all driven up to Ontario after the war ...

"All of them?  But they were my friends. Neutral I liked the pow wows."

-- Ichabod Crane


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Re: Indians--select chapters (Lord Grizzly, Sacagawea, Osages ...

Post  pinhedz on Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:48 am

As we know, Ichabod Crane finally succeeded in finding a Mohawk Indian living in Tarrytown.

Probably the only bolo tie in the state:


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