Page 2 of "Oh boy. Oh boy, Oh boy!"

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Page 2 of "Oh boy. Oh boy, Oh boy!"

Post  pinhedz on Mon May 30, 2011 8:34 am

As I recall, this thread from May 2010 was about insertion of new DNA into a living cell, or something like that. Page one is gone, so here's page 2:

John McLaughlin

LaRue wrote:Meh, it's not that exciting. THey didn't manfacture life, they manufactured DNA a put it in a cell. Make the actual bacteria cell from scratch and I'll be impressed.
Make it yourself, and I'll be impressed.


pinhedz

John McLaughlin wrote:
pinhedz wrote:Is there any reason not to regard this as perfectly natural?

Isn't it just another manifestation of man's ability to master abstractions, or something like that?

If man designs a new critter, isn't it still a product of natural selection, because it was created by a human critter, who is himself a product of natural selection?
Is there any reason not to regard this as God given, if mankind is created by God? Etc.
No reason not to.
(although I have no idea what you mean by "this" -- the cell? the DNA? the scientists' abilities or the breakthrough itself?).

So if it's God-given, does that make it natural or unnatural?


John McLaughlin

You know, you get so easily lost.

Anyway - God is beyond nature in most definitions. Or was, until He turned Himself into a Trinity and thus was made man, by Himself.

I'm sorry. Are you lost?


pinhedz

John McLaughlin wrote:... God is beyond nature in most definitions. ...
I'm sorry. Are you lost?
No need to be sorry. What happened is you quoted my question about whether or not the breakthrough was unnatural when you made your point about it being "God-given." That answer seemed irrelevant to me, and--unless I'm lost again--you just confirmed that it is irrelevant.

btw, what I'm saying is not sarcasm (in case you think it is), it's straightforward pinheded logic: if God is beyond nature, then telling me something is "God-given" doesn't tell me whether it's natural or unnatural.


John McLaughlin

Gee, an eye-opener: something that transcends your categories.

How will you get out of this conundrum?


pinhedz

It's not a conundrum, I take it the same way Albert Camus did, which is pretty much the same way the Catholic-school system in the US has always handled it: they teach religion in religion class, and science (including evolution) in science class.*

*for detailed discussion, see the "Reasonable denial of God" thread.


John McLaughlin

Back to the point: Do you understand why/how the concept of God transcends the categories of natural/unnatural?

(For discussion, see a couple of posts above)


pinhedz

John McLaughlin wrote:Back to the point: Do you understand why/how the concept of God transcends the categories of natural/unnatural?
I've always considered that God (if She exists) transcends the categories of natural/unnatural (like I just said), but that's not getting us "back to the point"--this thread isn't about God.


John McLaughlin

It's been the point of our mutual digression, hasn't it?

Must quite annoy you, how threads'll do that, almost as if they were natural life-forms....


pinhedz

John McLaughlin wrote:It's been the point of our mutual digression, hasn't it?
Yes, so now that we agree that God transcends natural/unnatural categories, are we done, or was that leading up to something?


John McLaughlin

Just wanted to get things ship-shape in Bristol fashion, as we say.


= ANDY =

Here's an interesting and insightfull Q&A about this matter:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science_and_environment/10134341.stm

What strikes me concerning the ethical aspect of this question is how we have lost all hope in a better future.
This technology indeed opens the door to super-destructive bio-weapons in theory.
But it should be clear that this theoretical ability still lies well beyond the capabilities of these scientists - whom we can expect to be world authorities in this domaine -, let alone those of mallacious terrorists.
Many years will go by before the theorethical path opened by this technology will become a real possibility that can be executed by highly-specialised professionals who have access to highly-develeoped technical applications.
Apparently nobody expects that the world will be any better by the time we reach this stage in genetic engineering.

The childeren of the generation that celebrated the dawn of the age of aquarius and who stood up against "the system" one may in '68 are adults with much dimmer hopes for their own future, so it seems.


John McLaughlin

Well, they've got so much less of it ahead of them now, haven't they? Unless, of course, they've got children and grandchildren on the horizon. '68 is so long ago it's mythical by now. There were lots of people of that generation who wanted nothing so much as to be permitted to compete in the rat-race, and got their wishes fulfilled. That may be the cause, as much as anything, of their present gloom. That's quite apart from the expectable burnout of idealists, of whom there were also many back then.

BTW, for an interesting discussion of the future of technology - and its God-role - you could do worse that look at Kurzweil and his respondent, Bill Joy. Googel em togeher.It's an interesting pair o slants.

pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11535
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Page 2 of "Oh boy. Oh boy, Oh boy!"

Post  hal. jones on Tue May 31, 2011 4:50 am

Where is ol' Johnny Mac. Crusty old bastard. I like him.

hal. jones

Posts : 35
Join date : 2011-05-31

Back to top Go down

Re: Page 2 of "Oh boy. Oh boy, Oh boy!"

Post  ISN on Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:30 am

old fukker - good riddance

ISN
Endlessly Fascinating

Posts : 598
Join date : 2011-04-10
Location : hell

Back to top Go down

Re: Page 2 of "Oh boy. Oh boy, Oh boy!"

Post  Doc Watson on Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:26 am

ISN wrote:old fukker - good riddance
He is a very intelligent poster with a good sense of humour

Doc Watson
Titanium Member

Posts : 1428
Join date : 2011-04-11
Age : 66
Location : Australia

Back to top Go down

Re: Page 2 of "Oh boy. Oh boy, Oh boy!"

Post  Sponsored content Today at 5:42 am


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum