Joplin VS Gottschalk

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Joplin VS Gottschalk

Post  pinhedz on Fri May 20, 2011 4:12 am

Googling turns up the following defunct thread topics:

-- Ragtime piano man Scott Joplin tries opera

-- Louis Moreau Gottschalk: The Original New Orleans pianist

-- The difference between Scott Joplin and Louis Moreau Gottschalk.

None of these threads are recoverable Neutral , but it looks intriguing, yes? There must be a story here, but what could it be? scratch study

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Re: Joplin VS Gottschalk

Post  pinhedz on Sat May 21, 2011 9:48 am

Gottschalk: 1829 – December 18, 1869.

Those dates make him a contemporary of Stephen Foster. That goes back to the very beginnings of American musics.

He went to the finest schools, and even got sent to Europe, and studied with Paderewski, and Liszt said the boy was good--darned good.

But in New Orleans he heard those rhythms, Jelly Roll Morton said those rhythms were "the Spanish tinge." The Cubans heard Jelly Roll play the Spanish tinge and said:

Ah, yes--Habanera music. A little before my time."

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Re: Joplin VS Gottschalk

Post  pinhedz on Sat May 21, 2011 10:00 am

Here we digress to listen to examples of the "Spanish Tinge:"








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Re: Joplin VS Gottschalk

Post  pinhedz on Sat May 21, 2011 10:16 am

But, Gottschalk was 100 years earlier, and he sounded like this:






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Re: Joplin VS Gottschalk

Post  pinhedz on Tue May 31, 2011 11:21 am

And now, we fast forward to the turn of the century, and Scot Joplin is playing with the Spanish tinge:



Here's Joplin himself playing it:


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Re: Joplin VS Gottschalk

Post  pinhedz on Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:42 am

Solace sounds unlike other Joplin pieces, because he plays the Latin rhythm in the left hand as well as in the melody. That's the same thing that Gottschalk did--Latin rhythm in both hands.

But, ragtime departs from Gottschalk, because the left hand plays a MARCH, while the right hand plays an HABANERA Shocked


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Re: Joplin VS Gottschalk

Post  pinhedz on Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:38 pm

The straight OOM-Pah, OOm-Pah in the left hand makes a very sharp contrast with the syncopation in the habanera tune in the right hand.

That's why some folks said it was played in "ragged time" (or so the story goes). geek

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Re: Joplin VS Gottschalk

Post  pinhedz on Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:51 am

The 4th is coming up--time for patriotic American music:


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Re: Joplin VS Gottschalk

Post  pinhedz on Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:08 am

Although he was from the South, Gottschalk supported the Union Army during the Civil War:


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Re: Joplin VS Gottschalk

Post  pinhedz on Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:53 am

This might be a bit off topic, but Gottschalk during the Civil War was an early practitioner of the policy of making love instead of war:

"I again began to live according to the customs of those primitive countries, which, if they are not strictly virtuous, are nonetheless terribly attractive. I saw again those beautiful triguenas, with red lips and brown bosoms, ignorant of evil, sinning with frankness, without fearing the bitterness of remorse."

"The moralists, I well know, condemn all this, and they are right. But poetry is often in antagonism with virtue; and now that I am shivering under the icy wind and grey sky of the north, now that I hear discussions about Erie, Prairie du Chien, Harlem and Cumberland, now that I read in the newspapers the lists of dead and wounded, the devastation of incendiaries, the abductions and assassinations that are committed on both sides under the name of retaliation, I find myself excusing the demisavages of the savannahs who prefer their poetic barbarism to our barbarous progress."

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Re: Joplin VS Gottschalk

Post  pinhedz on Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:39 pm

One scene from Tremonisha by Scott Joplin

Parson Alltalk enters.

Parson Alltalk:
Lis'en friends,
Do not tell lies an' steal, because it ain't right.
Remember all I say to you,
Because it's good advice.

All kneel in silent prayer.

All rise.


Parson Alltalk:
Does yer feel lak you've been redeemed?

Chorus:
O yes, ah feel lak I've been redeemed.

Parson Alltalk:
Ain't yer glad yer have been redeemed?

Chorus:
O yes, om glad ah have been redeemed.

Parson Alltalk:
Does yer always aim ter speak de truth?

Chorus:
O yes, ah always aim ter speak de truth.

Parson Alltalk:
Does yer love all yo' neighbors too?

Chorus:
O yes, ah love all ma neighbors too.

Parson Alltalk:
Lis'en friends,
Always live lak brothers an' sisters,
Because it is right.
Remember all I say to you,
Because it's good advice.

Don't harm yo' brother,
Don't harm yo' sister;
O, my neighbors, you must be good.

Chorus With closed lips:
Un . . .

Parson Alltalk:
Remember, each day,
Yo' debts you should pay;
O, my neighbors, you must be good.

Chorus With closed lips:
Un . . .

Parson Alltalk:
Does yer feel lak you've been redeemed?

Chorus:
O yes, ah feel lak I've been redeemed.

Parson Alltalk:
Ain't yer glad yer have been redeemed?

Chorus:
O yes, om glad ah have been redeemed.

Parson Alltalk:
Does yer always aim ter speak de truth?

Chorus:
O yes, ah always aim ter speak de truth.

Parson Alltalk:
Does yer love all yo' neighbors too?

Chorus:
O yes, ah love all ma neighbors too.

Exit Parson Alltalk.

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Re: Joplin VS Gottschalk

Post  pinhedz on Fri May 04, 2012 11:53 am

It's remarkable how Gottschalkian this sounds--especially the fast middle part:


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Re: Joplin VS Gottschalk

Post  pinhedz on Fri May 04, 2012 11:56 am

Did I post this already? It's Dr. John doing Gottschalk, with words added:


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Re: Joplin VS Gottschalk

Post  pinhedz on Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:44 am

Not to mention James P. Johnson:




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Re: Joplin VS Gottschalk

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