Photography is not art

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Re: Photography is not art

Post  sil on Sat May 14, 2011 8:10 pm

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Re: Photography is not art

Post  precinct14 on Sat May 14, 2011 8:14 pm

guacamayo wrote:I think you're forcing yourselves into thinking that bad art is still art

Not really. A bad clock is still a clock.

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Re: Photography is not art

Post  pinhedz on Sun May 15, 2011 11:38 am

Sometimes Mrs. pinz takes an Art photo:


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Re: Photography is not art

Post  Yakima Canutt on Wed May 18, 2011 11:04 am

"An artist? No, I'm a painter."

"Art is one of the dirtiest words in our language; it's mucked up with all kinds of meanings. There's the art of plumbing; there's the art of almost anything that you can say."

"When you think of painting as painting it is rather absurd. The real world is before us – glorious sunlight and activity and fresh air, and high speed motor cars and television, all the animation – a world apart from a little square of canvas that you smear paint on."

"Commonplace objects are constantly changing... The pies, for example, we now see, are not going to be around forever."

- Wayne Thiebaud


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Re: Photography is not art

Post  pinhedz on Wed May 18, 2011 12:13 pm

Usually when people say "That's a work of art," all they really mean is "That's really good."

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Re: Photography is not art

Post  felix on Wed May 18, 2011 8:44 pm

pinhedz wrote:Usually when people say "That's a work of art," all they really mean is "That's really good."
That should be in the 'say summink pinheded' thread innit.

Usually when people say "That's a work of art," all they really mean is "I rather like that."


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Re: Photography is not art

Post  precinct14 on Thu May 19, 2011 12:00 am

When randomly pulled over and questioned by Danish police, in a 2007 traffic survey, 17 out of 20 Copenhagen housewives agreed that "That's a work of art" was higher praise than "That's really good".

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Re: Photography is not art

Post  Nah Ville Sky Chick on Thu May 19, 2011 12:18 am

eddie wrote:
Artist's Shit, 1961- Piero Manzoni.

If I owned a tin of that I would have to undo it, would you?

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Re: Photography is not art

Post  pinhedz on Thu May 19, 2011 12:45 am

precinct14 wrote:When randomly pulled over and questioned by Danish police, in a 2007 traffic survey, 17 out of 20 Copenhagen housewives agreed that "That's a work of art" was higher praise than "That's really good".
That's not what they said. They just said that "work of art" sound more "bon ton."

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Re: Photography is not art

Post  precinct14 on Thu May 19, 2011 2:28 am

This thread is beginning to take on artistic pretensions, with surrealistic inflections.

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Photography is not art...

Post  tudor.anghelina91 on Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:42 am

I agree with the topic starter that photography is not art. To me, art also needs to involve a little work on my part. How does pushing a mere button qualifies me as an artist? I think photography couldn't be considered an art even if the photographer can turn into a tiny smurf, entering inside his camera and pulling the shutters manualy in order to make the photo. Someone compared a famous photographer to a famous painter, I don't know the photographer because I am not in the domain, but I know about Buonarotti. It is true that the photographer got only a fraction of a second to capture the moment and take the photos, but he only pushed a button and knew his camera very well in order to set it up for that particular moment. You can easily repair what you fucked up in photography by taking another shot, but in painting, it is almost never turning back. Michelangelo mixed his paint and took him months to finish his painting because he did it with his own hands, not with a tool that does the working part for you. Michelangelo did not only thought, but he also worked hard to finish his painting. The photographer got lucky, he thought it was a good opportunity to photograph. That doesn't make you an artist. That just makes you quick and better-aware of your surroundings than most people. Everyone can do that.

"Music is not art?" someone said. Today music is not art, just like photography. Fruity loops now generate random patterns. You just need a good ear to compose some modern day music. It takes time to compose classical music because you need to compose for many instruments, you need skill to read music and to compose. Mozart was a genius because he did marvelous sounding works in such a short time. His final work, The Requiem took one night to complete, and did not pushed a single button. They say that Salieri helped him to write the work because he was too ill. How many photographers can brag about a tremendous thing like that? What about Beethoven? He got deaf and still could compose marvelous works. And to a composer, ears are his most precious tools. When a photographer loses his camera or breaks it, he can buy another one. I never saw a photographer photograph without his camera.

Photography is just a craft, yes, photographers are of great importance in today's world and I respect that, but don't expect to be praised like Michelangelo or Mozart because they did a lot of work to accomplish this. Just remember: when people like your photos, they just praise your photos and not your skill, or pseudo-art. You are just useful and you do moderate amount of work (if it includes post-processing and editing in photoshop).

I respect photography as a craft, but I cannot consider it art...

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Re: Photography is not art

Post  pinhedz on Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:00 am

That seems very well thought out (I'm sure Paladin wishes he could have said it like that Razz ).

Are you an art student?

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Re: Photography is not art

Post  Lee Van Queef on Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:29 pm

pinhedz wrote: (I'm sure Paladin wishes he could have said it like that Razz ).


Laughing

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Re: Photography is not art

Post  tudor.anghelina91 on Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:48 pm

pinhedz wrote:That seems very well thought out (I'm sure Paladin wishes he could have said it like that Razz ).

Are you an art student?

Well, I study music, but that doesn't mean I don't know a thing or two about visual arts...

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Re: Photography is not art

Post  pinhedz on Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:15 pm

I think musicians often know a thing or two about the visual arts.

But if I might play devil's advocate, aren't you arguing that art is only art when it is the most laborious? You talk about how long and hard Michelangelo worked, but isn't much of that what you call "craft?"

The story of Salieri is a story of hard work mastering technique, without ever having the gift of Mozart, so should we call someone like Salieri an "artist" or a "craftsman?"

If Mozart perhaps did not work as hard as Salieri--does that mean that Salieri was the greater artist?

[I'm trying to remember who it was that said "Inspiration is 90% perspiration."]

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Re: Photography is not art

Post  eddie on Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:39 pm

pinhedz wrote:[I'm trying to remember who it was that said "Inspiration is 90% perspiration."]

As I recall, the saying goes: "Genius is 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration".

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Re: Photography is not art

Post  tudor.anghelina91 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:19 am

pinhedz wrote:I think musicians often know a thing or two about the visual arts.

But if I might play devil's advocate, aren't you arguing that art is only art when it is the most laborious? You talk about how long and hard Michelangelo worked, but isn't much of that what you call "craft?"

The story of Salieri is a story of hard work mastering technique, without ever having the gift of Mozart, so should we call someone like Salieri an "artist" or a "craftsman?"

If Mozart perhaps did not work as hard as Salieri--does that mean that Salieri was the greater artist?

[I'm trying to remember who it was that said "Inspiration is 90% perspiration."]

Let us remember that Mozart worked too. He studied, he played the violin and the harpischord. Music is something that takes a couple of years to master. Music theory, harmony, counterpoint, music reading. I never said Salieri was not an artist, but he wasn't a great one just like Mozart. Salieri was a good composer, but he lacked feeling. I mean, photography is not as complicated regarding the technical part. I think anyone can take a picture if you show him how to push a button, but not anyone can write music down. Compared to Mozart, Salieri was a craftsman.

Regarding photography. Sure, there are marvelous photos out there, but you can't consider it an art just because it looks amazingly good, just like a carpenter builds a good-looking chair or table. You can't call him an artist, but a skilled craftsman with a good aestethic taste.

That quote belonged to Albert Einstein.

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Re: Photography is not art

Post  pinhedz on Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:22 am

tudor.anghelina91 wrote:Let us remember that Mozart worked too.
Yes, in all cases there is both perspiration and inspiration.

tudor.anghelina91 wrote:Compared to Mozart, Salieri was a craftsman.
And isn't that because Salieri's work really was 99% perspiration and only 1% inspiration?

If Mozart had even 10% inspiration, that would mean he perspired less than Salieri, so we can't really evaluate art based on the amount of hard work performed. The artists that work the hardest might be in the mediocre category.

But I don't know what to evaluate instead of hard work. Do we evaluate instead the level of genius? We can call Mozart's work genius, but that is an evaluation of the quality of art, not a definition of what art is (presumably art can be good art or bad art, and still be art by definition). And this thread is an attempt to determine whether or not photography--good photography or bad photography--fits the definition of art.

So, I've argued my way into a corner: I don't think art is defined by it's quality (which can be good or bad) but I also don't think art is defined by the hard work performed.

It's about creativity, I think; can we define creativity? And can a photographer--who does not create the objects that he makes images of--nevertheless be doing something creative?

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Re: Photography is not art

Post  Guest on Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:49 pm

Humor ¿Bella Arte?

Yo no sé, es que lo de arte, arte es un concepto que históricamente y tradicionalmente siempre ha estado tan unido a una serie de de de corsés tan snobs, quiero decir, que el arte histórico ha sido del hombre blanco (porque el arte africano era como neutro, no había nombres, era un arte general, genérico, vasijas) pero el arte con nombres, el arte con mayúsculas, el arte de pastaza ha sido siempre de hombres blancos, heterosexuales... o que desconocía su sexualidad, y ya en el momento en que son autoconscientes... ya se convierte aquello en una cosa terrible. Entonces yo espero que lo que yo hago nunca sea arte, no quiero formar parte de esa crème

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Re: Photography is not art

Post  pinhedz on Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:41 am

Yeabut, the corsés tan snobs respect prehistoric cave art, even though it is as neutro as anything. The only criteria as far as I can tell is that one needs practice and skill to get good at it (talent helps also, but is not a defining criterion).

So, I would say that an automatic security camera does not produce art, but a photographer does--just because the photographer's care and judgement determines where the camera points and when it clicks.

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Re: Photography is not art

Post  Guest on Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:30 pm

the concept art made its way into his world like that and he answers the question
neutro is someone who is not a participant, it is concretely no one

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Re: Photography is not art

Post  pinhedz on Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:36 am

doktora evola wrote:neutro is someone who is not a participant, it is concretely no one
Does that mean African art was made by "no one," or by "anonymous?"

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Re: Photography is not art

Post  Guest on Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:18 pm

wtf??? you don't understand my anorexic language?

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Re: Photography is not art

Post  pinhedz on Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:26 am

Can rephrase the question? scratch

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Re: Photography is not art

Post  Guest on Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:56 pm



it was a joke about me making posts dispensing with what is not so that in the end they aren't understood and it's not me. I blame you

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Re: Photography is not art

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