Bin Laden is dead

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  pinhedz on Wed May 04, 2011 7:30 am

ANDY wrote:I also wonder if keeping bin Laden's death secret wouldn't have been more efficient?
Efficient in what way? Much of the motivation for killing him was to demoralize the terrorists.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Blondie on Wed May 04, 2011 7:33 am

pinhedz wrote:
ANDY wrote:I also wonder if keeping bin Laden's death secret wouldn't have been more efficient?
Efficient in what way? Much of the motivation for killing him was to demoralize the terrorists.
And to show the world that we're willing to wage war in two countries and secretly enter another to get the guy that attacked us. We don't fuck around with people staging attacks on our soil. See: Hiroshima & Nagasaki

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Dick Fitzwell on Wed May 04, 2011 7:36 am

ANDY wrote:That's your legal definition of when a killing is not a murder?

No, the legal definition is not decided by me.

As for the armed-question ... you've read that part of the news by now, didn't you?

I read that Osama Bin Laden was killed in a firefight and various sources also reported that he used a woman (his wife?) as a human shield. So there you go.

Obviously the intent was not just to kill him...they don't need SEAL teams for that. You're acting as if they busted down the door of some old man's house and shot him in the head while he was asleep for no reason. Shut the fuck up.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  pinhedz on Wed May 04, 2011 7:38 am

Also, he just might be pulling your leg.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Dick Fitzwell on Wed May 04, 2011 7:38 am

pinhedz wrote:Also, he just might be pulling your leg.

Twisted Evil

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  precinct14 on Wed May 04, 2011 8:38 am

pinhedz wrote:The Republican's are trying to restrain themselves from gloating, now that it's been disclosed that the critical leads that put us on Bin Laden's trail several years ago were the result of water boarding.

They won't be gloating when they see Obama's approval ratings.


oops, that was unseemly ....

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  pinhedz on Wed May 04, 2011 8:53 am

precinct14 wrote:
pinhedz wrote:The Republican's are trying to restrain themselves from gloating, now that it's been disclosed that the critical leads that put us on Bin Laden's trail several years ago were the result of water boarding.

They won't be gloating when they see Obama's approval ratings.


oops, that was unseemly ....
They'll just have to swallow the approval ratings--rules of the game, you know.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  pinhedz on Wed May 04, 2011 9:03 am

ANDY wrote:Maybe, maybe.
But I'm not sure that an event that will almost certainly inspire some people to acts of revenge will really demoralize anyone.
The notion that attacking terrorists just makes them worse has been out there for a long time. There is a school of thought that says we must be careful to not do anything that will anger them. The terrorists themselves take this line in their propaganda; they claim that every time we kill a terrorist, two more peaceful muslims become so inflamed that they turn into terrorists. But I'd advise you not to buy any bridges from those BSers.

Most terrorists will only stay in their job as long as they consider it a good job. They want the same things as everyone else--job security, pay, safety and fringe benefits. They don't want pain, danger, risk, discomfort--or any of the other things regular people don't want.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Dick Fitzwell on Wed May 04, 2011 9:50 am


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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Doc Watson on Wed May 04, 2011 10:49 am

Captain Hi-Top wrote:But the thing is, nobody lied to the Doctor, he is just completely oblivious to humor or something.
I am as responsive to humour as much as any one . I have freely confessed I was wrong here . I have fixed up the original post iif you care to look Very Happy

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Dick Fitzwell on Wed May 04, 2011 1:57 pm


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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  tatiana on Wed May 04, 2011 4:01 pm

with regards to bin Laden being unarmed when he was caught....
weren't all the people who died in his terrorist attacks.....unarmed?



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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  tatiana on Wed May 04, 2011 4:35 pm

Salamity Jane wrote:Of course they were. But you could use this as justification for killing every murderer on sight.

true.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  precinct14 on Wed May 04, 2011 7:23 pm

Interesting commentary piece in today's Times by Ed Husain, senior fellow at the Council of Foreign Relations, in Washington. Beneath a headline that reads 'Bin Laden is more dangerous dead than alive', he asserts that although the US was quite right to remove bin Laden, when the opportunity arose, it would be wrong to think that his death will weaken al-Qaeda. Why? Because 'al-Qaeda is no longer a mere organisaion, but a global brand, an idea, a philosophy that now has its first Saudi martyr from the holy lands of Islam'. Apparently, although al-Jazeera's coverage has been fairly sober, the thousands of messages left on their website demonstrate how much of a martyr he has already become-with or without a grave to pray at. This isn't to say that the US can now expect a reprisal attack on its territory or people, but that 'the most immediate attack on our door from bin Laden's ghost will be heard in Jerusalem and its neighbouring lands'. So, congratulations on a stunningly successful operation, but don't go thinking it's game over.

p.s. It was Obama's decision to go for the riskier raid option, that could either deliver Osama's body, or end in calamitous failure and the tarnishing of his presidency, over a missile strike that could be carried out far more easily, reduce the compound to rubble, but be less likely to deliver ultimate proof of bin Laden's death. I wonder what Bush would have opted for?

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  pinhedz on Wed May 04, 2011 10:26 pm

precinct14 wrote:Interesting commentary piece in today's Times by Ed Husain, senior fellow at the Council of Foreign Relations, in Washington. Beneath a headline that reads 'Bin Laden is more dangerous dead than alive', he asserts that although the US was quite right to remove bin Laden, when the opportunity arose, it would be wrong to think that his death will weaken al-Qaeda. Why? Because 'al-Qaeda is no longer a mere organisaion, but a global brand, an idea, a philosophy that now has its first Saudi martyr from the holy lands of Islam'. Apparently, although al-Jazeera's coverage has been fairly sober, the thousands of messages left on their website demonstrate how much of a martyr he has already become-with or without a grave to pray at. This isn't to say that the US can now expect a reprisal attack on its territory or people, but that 'the most immediate attack on our door from bin Laden's ghost will be heard in Jerusalem and its neighbouring lands'. So, congratulations on a stunningly successful operation, but don't go thinking it's game over.
poppycock.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  pinhedz on Wed May 04, 2011 10:28 pm

precinct14 wrote:I wonder what Bush would have opted for?
Impeach Bush.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  precinct14 on Wed May 04, 2011 11:19 pm

pinhedz wrote:
precinct14 wrote:Interesting commentary piece in today's Times by Ed Husain, senior fellow at the Council of Foreign Relations, in Washington. Beneath a headline that reads 'Bin Laden is more dangerous dead than alive', he asserts that although the US was quite right to remove bin Laden, when the opportunity arose, it would be wrong to think that his death will weaken al-Qaeda. Why? Because 'al-Qaeda is no longer a mere organisaion, but a global brand, an idea, a philosophy that now has its first Saudi martyr from the holy lands of Islam'. Apparently, although al-Jazeera's coverage has been fairly sober, the thousands of messages left on their website demonstrate how much of a martyr he has already become-with or without a grave to pray at. This isn't to say that the US can now expect a reprisal attack on its territory or people, but that 'the most immediate attack on our door from bin Laden's ghost will be heard in Jerusalem and its neighbouring lands'. So, congratulations on a stunningly successful operation, but don't go thinking it's game over.
poppycock.

Really? Do tell us all why.... Mr Toff. Laughing

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  precinct14 on Wed May 04, 2011 11:22 pm

pinhedz wrote:
precinct14 wrote:I wonder what Bush would have opted for?
Impeach Bush.

Bush opting to impeach himself, in the face of a choice between launching a raid or bomb attack, on the bin Laden compound. Imaginative.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  pinhedz on Thu May 05, 2011 12:06 am

If he decides to run in 2012, you must make a point of bringing this up. Razz

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Blondie on Thu May 05, 2011 12:20 am

Captain Hi-Top wrote:

There's probably more than a few motherfuckers out of work who'd like a cheap tank of gas. Can you add that to your agenda, Mr. President?

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Blondie on Thu May 05, 2011 12:24 am

precinct14 wrote:p.s. It was Obama's decision to go for the riskier raid option, that could either deliver Osama's body, or end in calamitous failure and the tarnishing of his presidency, over a missile strike that could be carried out far more easily, reduce the compound to rubble, but be less likely to deliver ultimate proof of bin Laden's death. I wonder what Bush would have opted for?

How do you think the US military captured all those terrorists that they water boarded? Risky "capture alive" missions!

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  pinhedz on Thu May 05, 2011 12:27 am

precinct14 wrote:
pinhedz wrote:
precinct14 wrote:Interesting commentary piece in today's Times by Ed Husain, senior fellow at the Council of Foreign Relations, in Washington. Beneath a headline that reads 'Bin Laden is more dangerous dead than alive', he asserts that although the US was quite right to remove bin Laden, when the opportunity arose, it would be wrong to think that his death will weaken al-Qaeda. Why? Because 'al-Qaeda is no longer a mere organisaion, but a global brand, an idea, a philosophy that now has its first Saudi martyr from the holy lands of Islam'. Apparently, although al-Jazeera's coverage has been fairly sober, the thousands of messages left on their website demonstrate how much of a martyr he has already become-with or without a grave to pray at. This isn't to say that the US can now expect a reprisal attack on its territory or people, but that 'the most immediate attack on our door from bin Laden's ghost will be heard in Jerusalem and its neighbouring lands'. So, congratulations on a stunningly successful operation, but don't go thinking it's game over.
poppycock.

Really? Do tell us all why.... Mr Toff. Laughing
If you insist.

"Thousands of messages" come from the kind of people that will post messages--in other words, people that do nothing.

What's needed is leadership and resources--not posting messages.

And those messages don't even reflect the views of the general populations of the middle eastern countries. Polls over the last 10 years show that Al Qaeda's approval rating has plunged to single digits in most countries--lower than Bush's worst ratings. Shocked

I remember some idiot on the stage at Woodstock announcing "This it the 5th largest army in the world." cheers

If that was the case--and they were surely inspired--why didn't they change the world order? Because they were just a bunch excited youngsters with "a global brand, an idea, a philosophy ..." and they had martyrs, too. Such stuff is no replacement for organization, training, discipline, and all the other essentials that have been atrophying.

Add to that the fact that having a new "martyr" won't replace the blow to morale that will result from seeing the enemy track, pinpoint, and target the fearless leader, and take him out with a surgical strike. This at a time when the entire movement has become almost universally unpopular (those "thousands of messages" notwithstanding).

And does the author really think that Bin Laden was the "first Saudi Martyr?" Weren't most of the 9-11 terrorists were Saudis? All were from Saudi Arabia, with the exception of Fayez Banihammad, according to the 9/11 Commission Report.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  pinhedz on Thu May 05, 2011 12:38 am

Fun fact--Angelina Jolie is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR).

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Blondie on Thu May 05, 2011 12:43 am

precinct14 wrote:p.s. It was Obama's decision to go for the riskier raid option, that could either deliver Osama's body, or end in calamitous failure and the tarnishing of his presidency, over a missile strike that could be carried out far more easily, reduce the compound to rubble, but be less likely to deliver ultimate proof of bin Laden's death. I wonder what Bush would have opted for?

Oh, and is this risky raid operation that Obama invented being used in Libya?

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  ISN on Thu May 05, 2011 12:58 am

Blondie wrote:
Captain Hi-Top wrote:

There's probably more than a few motherfuckers out of work who'd like a cheap tank of gas. Can you add that to your agenda, Mr. President?

I don't even understand how he can keep his mind on the job at all scratch

http://news.yahoo.com/video/politics-15749652/just-dance-michelle-obama-dances-at-dc-school-25107281

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

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