Bin Laden is dead

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Dick Fitzwell on Wed May 04, 2011 3:18 am

Doc Watson wrote:It is not my fault I trust and believe what people tell me. I would rather belive some one and get it wrong , rather that doubt some one and get it wrong.

So you'd rather be a gullible fool than have healthy skepticism? No wonder you're a Christian.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Dick Fitzwell on Wed May 04, 2011 4:45 am

But the thing is, nobody lied to the Doctor, he is just completely oblivious to humor or something.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  sil on Wed May 04, 2011 4:47 am

Captain Hi-Top wrote:
ANDY wrote:But even a part from that question: do you really believe that if a muslim-extrimist blew a bullet through Barack Obama's or George Bush's head, he wouldn't be prosecuted for murder? Or that his defence could plea not-guilty for murder because he's client merely killed an enemeny in a war-situation?

Are you really this stupid or are you just pretending?
He's just following your reasoning...
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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Dick Fitzwell on Wed May 04, 2011 4:57 am

pinhedz wrote:Andy--I believe the instructions on Bin Laden have always been to take him dead or alive, the same as any capital criminal in the United States. Like many US capital criminals, Bin Laden was killed in a shootout.

Exactly. Is it "murder" if a cop kills a bank robber in a firefight? No...it's killing a bank robber in a firefight. Is it "murder" when a soldier kills an enemy in a firefight? No...it's killing an enemy in a firefight.

Murder is a crime defined by law...

Salamity Jane wrote:Yeah, but the legality of doing that in a foreign country is not really all that simple a business, is it?

and the legality is completely different than the morality.


Last edited by Captain Hi-Top on Wed May 04, 2011 4:57 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  precinct14 on Wed May 04, 2011 5:48 am

So, how are the Republicans coping with the reality that he was clinically and swiftly taken out- without the loss of a single US life- under the watch of a decisive, committed Democrat President? America is celebrating the death of the nĂºmero uno totemic baddie that Bush gave up on chasing, and described as "a person who has now been marginalised", during his two terms. Embarrassing. Wonder what carping criticisms Limbaugh and his Far Right pals are dredging up? Carnap'll know.
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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Blondie on Wed May 04, 2011 6:27 am

pinhedz wrote:The Republican's are trying to restrain themselves from gloating, now that it's been disclosed that the critical leads that put us on Bin Laden's trail several years ago were the result of water boarding.

That's right

And let's be clear that Obama didn't capture Osama himself. US intelligence forces did the dirty work. They told the president they were sure where Bin Laden was hiding and Obama told them to go ahead with their mission. I'm quite sure the prez wasn't pouring over maps, viewing years worth of surveilance footage, going undercover to conduct information gathering missions and putting himself in harms way to find the bad guy.
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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Blondie on Wed May 04, 2011 6:37 am

pinhedz wrote:So, the party that should comment on the "legality" of the US conducting such an operation in Pakistan is the Pakistani gub'mint.

Pakistan and Zardari better not say shit since they've accepted BILLIONS of dollars in foreign aid from the USA in the past couple of years.

Politics sure is messy, ain't it?
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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Blondie on Wed May 04, 2011 7:01 am

Andy is exactly right. Bin Laden's death in no way signifies the end of "The War On Terror" *cue thematic music* In fact, the remaining terrorist factions are scattered all over the globe and they will most likely retaliate in some way. Shooting terrorist leaders, who have master minded and oversaw the execution of numerous attacks on four continents, in the face is absolutely fine by me, though.
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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Dick Fitzwell on Wed May 04, 2011 7:13 am

ANDY wrote:So it wouldn't be murder if a Jihadist shot an American president or ex-presiden through the head, according to your own standards.

If Obama was an international fugitive wanted for the most heinous crimes of our generation, and he was in a locked down compound, armed and ready to fight to the death, then no, it wouldn't be.

This questiosn I ask are obviously pure intellectual exercises

Well I can't blame you for that. Your intellect definitely needs some exercise, it's terribly out of shape.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Blondie on Wed May 04, 2011 7:27 am

Captain Hi-Top re: ANDY wrote:Well I can't blame you for that. Your intellect definitely needs some exercise, it's terribly out of shape.

If you had a shred of anyone's respect here, you just mulched it with that comment. ANDY is nothing if not intellectual.
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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Blondie on Wed May 04, 2011 7:29 am

ANDY wrote:I also wonder if keeping bin Laden's death secret wouldn't have been more efficient?
Certainly not for Obama's re-election campaign
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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Blondie on Wed May 04, 2011 7:33 am

pinhedz wrote:
ANDY wrote:I also wonder if keeping bin Laden's death secret wouldn't have been more efficient?
Efficient in what way? Much of the motivation for killing him was to demoralize the terrorists.
And to show the world that we're willing to wage war in two countries and secretly enter another to get the guy that attacked us. We don't fuck around with people staging attacks on our soil. See: Hiroshima & Nagasaki
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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Dick Fitzwell on Wed May 04, 2011 7:36 am

ANDY wrote:That's your legal definition of when a killing is not a murder?

No, the legal definition is not decided by me.

As for the armed-question ... you've read that part of the news by now, didn't you?

I read that Osama Bin Laden was killed in a firefight and various sources also reported that he used a woman (his wife?) as a human shield. So there you go.

Obviously the intent was not just to kill him...they don't need SEAL teams for that. You're acting as if they busted down the door of some old man's house and shot him in the head while he was asleep for no reason. Shut the fuck up.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Dick Fitzwell on Wed May 04, 2011 7:38 am

pinhedz wrote:Also, he just might be pulling your leg.

Twisted Evil

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  precinct14 on Wed May 04, 2011 8:38 am

pinhedz wrote:The Republican's are trying to restrain themselves from gloating, now that it's been disclosed that the critical leads that put us on Bin Laden's trail several years ago were the result of water boarding.

They won't be gloating when they see Obama's approval ratings.


oops, that was unseemly ....
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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Dick Fitzwell on Wed May 04, 2011 9:50 am


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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Doc Watson on Wed May 04, 2011 10:49 am

Captain Hi-Top wrote:But the thing is, nobody lied to the Doctor, he is just completely oblivious to humor or something.
I am as responsive to humour as much as any one . I have freely confessed I was wrong here . I have fixed up the original post iif you care to look Very Happy
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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Dick Fitzwell on Wed May 04, 2011 1:57 pm


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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  tatiana on Wed May 04, 2011 4:01 pm

with regards to bin Laden being unarmed when he was caught....
weren't all the people who died in his terrorist attacks.....unarmed?


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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  tatiana on Wed May 04, 2011 4:35 pm

Salamity Jane wrote:Of course they were. But you could use this as justification for killing every murderer on sight.

true.
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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  precinct14 on Wed May 04, 2011 7:23 pm

Interesting commentary piece in today's Times by Ed Husain, senior fellow at the Council of Foreign Relations, in Washington. Beneath a headline that reads 'Bin Laden is more dangerous dead than alive', he asserts that although the US was quite right to remove bin Laden, when the opportunity arose, it would be wrong to think that his death will weaken al-Qaeda. Why? Because 'al-Qaeda is no longer a mere organisaion, but a global brand, an idea, a philosophy that now has its first Saudi martyr from the holy lands of Islam'. Apparently, although al-Jazeera's coverage has been fairly sober, the thousands of messages left on their website demonstrate how much of a martyr he has already become-with or without a grave to pray at. This isn't to say that the US can now expect a reprisal attack on its territory or people, but that 'the most immediate attack on our door from bin Laden's ghost will be heard in Jerusalem and its neighbouring lands'. So, congratulations on a stunningly successful operation, but don't go thinking it's game over.

p.s. It was Obama's decision to go for the riskier raid option, that could either deliver Osama's body, or end in calamitous failure and the tarnishing of his presidency, over a missile strike that could be carried out far more easily, reduce the compound to rubble, but be less likely to deliver ultimate proof of bin Laden's death. I wonder what Bush would have opted for?
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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  precinct14 on Wed May 04, 2011 11:19 pm

pinhedz wrote:
precinct14 wrote:Interesting commentary piece in today's Times by Ed Husain, senior fellow at the Council of Foreign Relations, in Washington. Beneath a headline that reads 'Bin Laden is more dangerous dead than alive', he asserts that although the US was quite right to remove bin Laden, when the opportunity arose, it would be wrong to think that his death will weaken al-Qaeda. Why? Because 'al-Qaeda is no longer a mere organisaion, but a global brand, an idea, a philosophy that now has its first Saudi martyr from the holy lands of Islam'. Apparently, although al-Jazeera's coverage has been fairly sober, the thousands of messages left on their website demonstrate how much of a martyr he has already become-with or without a grave to pray at. This isn't to say that the US can now expect a reprisal attack on its territory or people, but that 'the most immediate attack on our door from bin Laden's ghost will be heard in Jerusalem and its neighbouring lands'. So, congratulations on a stunningly successful operation, but don't go thinking it's game over.
poppycock.

Really? Do tell us all why.... Mr Toff. Laughing
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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  precinct14 on Wed May 04, 2011 11:22 pm

pinhedz wrote:
precinct14 wrote:I wonder what Bush would have opted for?
Impeach Bush.

Bush opting to impeach himself, in the face of a choice between launching a raid or bomb attack, on the bin Laden compound. Imaginative.
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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Blondie on Thu May 05, 2011 12:20 am

Captain Hi-Top wrote:

There's probably more than a few motherfuckers out of work who'd like a cheap tank of gas. Can you add that to your agenda, Mr. President?
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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Blondie on Thu May 05, 2011 12:24 am

precinct14 wrote:p.s. It was Obama's decision to go for the riskier raid option, that could either deliver Osama's body, or end in calamitous failure and the tarnishing of his presidency, over a missile strike that could be carried out far more easily, reduce the compound to rubble, but be less likely to deliver ultimate proof of bin Laden's death. I wonder what Bush would have opted for?

How do you think the US military captured all those terrorists that they water boarded? Risky "capture alive" missions!
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