Bin Laden is dead

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Doc Watson on Tue May 03, 2011 10:56 am

[quote="precinct14"][quote="Doc Watson"]
Captain Hi-Top wrote:
Doc Watson wrote:
Have you never made a mistake ? Let him or her who is without sin amomg us cast the first stone.

Oo-er! Laughing

Perhaps we should launch a thread in your honour, Doctor Emu, entitled 'Gullible's Travails'. What do you think?
]It is not my fault I trust and believe what people tell me. I would rather belive some one and get it wrong , rather that doubt some one and get it wrong.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Blondie on Wed May 04, 2011 2:54 am

ANDY wrote: How killing a Yemenite in Pakistan figures into that equation isn't exactly that clear to me.
Bin Laden was actually a Saudi Arabian, but that's splitting hairs at this point

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/etc/cron.html

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  ISN on Wed May 04, 2011 3:15 am

the king is dead......long live the king

maybe he'll rise like Christ to lead legions and hordes of marauders to kick our collective sorry ass......

but he probably won't......

he ain't no Genghis Khan or Alexander........

I guess he had some kind of point......some kind of MO......some kind of reason for what he did.........some bloody intention and will

but, yes, we are untouchable........impervious to threats and threats of threats........

who cares about Bin Laden.....

I'm pretty sure it's all a load of crap..........

some trumped up danger.......all handily embodied in one man

a chance for America to go all voodoo dancing on his ass

some quick-thinking propaganda........

"the evil that men do lives after them......"

some fake tomfoolery......(and I'm not really that cynical)


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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Dick Fitzwell on Wed May 04, 2011 3:16 am

ANDY wrote:But even a part from that question: do you really believe that if a muslim-extrimist blew a bullet through Barack Obama's or George Bush's head, he wouldn't be prosecuted for murder? Or that his defence could plea not-guilty for murder because he's client merely killed an enemeny in a war-situation?

Are you really this stupid or are you just pretending?

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Dick Fitzwell on Wed May 04, 2011 3:18 am

Doc Watson wrote:It is not my fault I trust and believe what people tell me. I would rather belive some one and get it wrong , rather that doubt some one and get it wrong.

So you'd rather be a gullible fool than have healthy skepticism? No wonder you're a Christian.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  pinhedz on Wed May 04, 2011 4:39 am

When Saint Thomas Aquinas was a young university student, some of his fellow students decided to find out just how gullible he was, so they told him there was a bull flying outside the window.

Thomas immediately went over to the window to see the flying bull, and the other students started laughing and calling him gullible.

Thomas, of course, said "I would rather believe there was a bull flying outside the window than believe that you would lie to me."

I think it's clear that Doc Watson is well read and wants to be like Saint Thomas Aquinas.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Dick Fitzwell on Wed May 04, 2011 4:45 am

But the thing is, nobody lied to the Doctor, he is just completely oblivious to humor or something.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  sil on Wed May 04, 2011 4:47 am

Captain Hi-Top wrote:
ANDY wrote:But even a part from that question: do you really believe that if a muslim-extrimist blew a bullet through Barack Obama's or George Bush's head, he wouldn't be prosecuted for murder? Or that his defence could plea not-guilty for murder because he's client merely killed an enemeny in a war-situation?

Are you really this stupid or are you just pretending?
He's just following your reasoning...

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  pinhedz on Wed May 04, 2011 4:53 am

guacamayo wrote:
Captain Hi-Top wrote:
ANDY wrote:But even a part from that question: do you really believe that if a muslim-extrimist blew a bullet through Barack Obama's or George Bush's head, he wouldn't be prosecuted for murder? Or that his defence could plea not-guilty for murder because he's client merely killed an enemeny in a war-situation?

Are you really this stupid or are you just pretending?
He's just following your reasoning...
Andy--I believe the instructions on Bin Laden have always been to take him dead or alive, the same as any capital criminal in the United States. Like many US capital criminals, Bin Laden was killed in a shootout.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Dick Fitzwell on Wed May 04, 2011 4:57 am

pinhedz wrote:Andy--I believe the instructions on Bin Laden have always been to take him dead or alive, the same as any capital criminal in the United States. Like many US capital criminals, Bin Laden was killed in a shootout.

Exactly. Is it "murder" if a cop kills a bank robber in a firefight? No...it's killing a bank robber in a firefight. Is it "murder" when a soldier kills an enemy in a firefight? No...it's killing an enemy in a firefight.

Murder is a crime defined by law...

Salamity Jane wrote:Yeah, but the legality of doing that in a foreign country is not really all that simple a business, is it?

and the legality is completely different than the morality.


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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  pinhedz on Wed May 04, 2011 4:57 am

A bounty hunter who delivered Bin Laden's corpse would never have been charged with murder:


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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  pinhedz on Wed May 04, 2011 5:04 am

Salamity Jane wrote:Yeah, but the legality of doing that in a foreign country is not really all that simple a business, is it?
The notion of "international law" looks more and more silly the closer you examine it. International court proceedings have only as much standing as the parties involved agree for them to have, and, most important, the only real enforcement mechanism--in the event of real disagreement--is war.

So, the party that should comment on the "legality" of the US conducting such an operation in Pakistan is the Pakistani gub'mint.

What have they had to say so far? Do you think they'll sue?

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  pinhedz on Wed May 04, 2011 5:14 am

The oldest parliament in the world is Iceland's (the þing).

The ancient sagas describe the early meetings of the þing, which where conducted outside to allow space for massed movements and swinging swords.

The party that brought the most armed men to the meetings always won.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  pinhedz on Wed May 04, 2011 5:17 am

Salamity Jane wrote:Yeah, you're right. I was really just raising a question. I don't have a clear opinion on this. But I guess you're right that the Pakistani government are the ones to be asked. What HAVE they said so far? Has there been any kind of statement?
Musharraf has been talking a great deal. He wants it clearly understood that the Pakistani military and intelligence service were not harboring or protecting Bin Laden, and that had they known where he was, they would have gone after him.

No comment on the SEALs trespassing on Pakistani territory.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  pinhedz on Wed May 04, 2011 5:25 am

What happened is very similar to what happened to Mir Aimal Kasi. He had shot 4 people outside of CIA Headquarters in 1993, and was captured by US commandos in Pakistan in 1997.

The only difference is that Kasi was taken alive--and executed later.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  precinct14 on Wed May 04, 2011 5:48 am

So, how are the Republicans coping with the reality that he was clinically and swiftly taken out- without the loss of a single US life- under the watch of a decisive, committed Democrat President? America is celebrating the death of the número uno totemic baddie that Bush gave up on chasing, and described as "a person who has now been marginalised", during his two terms. Embarrassing. Wonder what carping criticisms Limbaugh and his Far Right pals are dredging up? Carnap'll know.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  pinhedz on Wed May 04, 2011 6:03 am

The Republican's are trying to restrain themselves from gloating, now that it's been disclosed that the critical leads that put us on Bin Laden's trail several years ago were the result of water boarding.



oops, that was unseemly ...

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  pinhedz on Wed May 04, 2011 6:09 am

Condi was asked if water boarding has been vindicated, and she sort of dodged the question, just saying that both the Bush and Obama administrations have done themselves proud (she's kind of sweet on Obama I love you ).

Rumsfield was asked the same question, and he just said only 3 people were water boarded, and not for long, because it didn't take long to get them talking.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Blondie on Wed May 04, 2011 6:27 am

pinhedz wrote:The Republican's are trying to restrain themselves from gloating, now that it's been disclosed that the critical leads that put us on Bin Laden's trail several years ago were the result of water boarding.

That's right

And let's be clear that Obama didn't capture Osama himself. US intelligence forces did the dirty work. They told the president they were sure where Bin Laden was hiding and Obama told them to go ahead with their mission. I'm quite sure the prez wasn't pouring over maps, viewing years worth of surveilance footage, going undercover to conduct information gathering missions and putting himself in harms way to find the bad guy.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Blondie on Wed May 04, 2011 6:37 am

pinhedz wrote:So, the party that should comment on the "legality" of the US conducting such an operation in Pakistan is the Pakistani gub'mint.

Pakistan and Zardari better not say shit since they've accepted BILLIONS of dollars in foreign aid from the USA in the past couple of years.

Politics sure is messy, ain't it?

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Blondie on Wed May 04, 2011 7:01 am

Andy is exactly right. Bin Laden's death in no way signifies the end of "The War On Terror" *cue thematic music* In fact, the remaining terrorist factions are scattered all over the globe and they will most likely retaliate in some way. Shooting terrorist leaders, who have master minded and oversaw the execution of numerous attacks on four continents, in the face is absolutely fine by me, though.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Dick Fitzwell on Wed May 04, 2011 7:13 am

ANDY wrote:So it wouldn't be murder if a Jihadist shot an American president or ex-presiden through the head, according to your own standards.

If Obama was an international fugitive wanted for the most heinous crimes of our generation, and he was in a locked down compound, armed and ready to fight to the death, then no, it wouldn't be.

This questiosn I ask are obviously pure intellectual exercises

Well I can't blame you for that. Your intellect definitely needs some exercise, it's terribly out of shape.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  pinhedz on Wed May 04, 2011 7:25 am

ANDY wrote:This might be an interesting article to read for people who think some concerns are pure hypothetical:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8472810/Wikileaks-Al-Qaeda-plotted-chemical-and-nuclear-attack-on-the-West.html

And just if you shouldn't notice all by yourself: look at the date it was published.

Doesn't that article just demonstrate that before you can "connect the dots" you have to figure out which dots are legit and which are just nutty?

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Blondie on Wed May 04, 2011 7:27 am

Captain Hi-Top re: ANDY wrote:Well I can't blame you for that. Your intellect definitely needs some exercise, it's terribly out of shape.

If you had a shred of anyone's respect here, you just mulched it with that comment. ANDY is nothing if not intellectual.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Blondie on Wed May 04, 2011 7:29 am

ANDY wrote:I also wonder if keeping bin Laden's death secret wouldn't have been more efficient?
Certainly not for Obama's re-election campaign

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

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