Bin Laden is dead

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Doc Watson on Fri May 06, 2011 12:43 am

Catherine wrote:

a bit like old dr shoehorn - gormless
Is that a reference to me ?
If so please use my corrent id.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  ISN on Fri May 06, 2011 12:46 am

don't get upset with me - you've been called lots of different things......by many other people

I'd be more worried about the "gormless" bit

I'm sure people could come up with a few variations on my name too

they can if they want.......


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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Nah Ville Sky Chick on Fri May 06, 2011 12:56 am

Eric Lomax was a Japanese prisoner of war. He suffered water torture and I do not think it is the same as waterboarding (but I am happy to be corrected).

Basically Mr Lomax was placed on his back with a cloth over his face, a hosepipe at full force was then held over his nose and mouth, and his stomach filled with water, the feeling was of course that of drowning and he lost conciousness.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  ISN on Fri May 06, 2011 1:01 am

Strawberry Jam wrote:Apart from the UN Convention, there's also the Geneva Convention, of course, which also outlaws torture. Please look it up yourself.

And your idea about the harmlessness of waterboarding is completely wrong. Here's the account of a British soldier who was waterboarded by the Japanese in WWII:

Eric Lomax wrote:One morning I was led out to the back of the Kempeitai building, where the simple apparatus for the historic water torture was laid out. From its availability I wondered if they used it quite often. I was laid on my back on a bench; my arms, still broken and almost useless, were placed across my chest, my face was covered by a cloth and a tap feeding a hose-pipe was turned on. It was all so simple. To encourage me to say something the senior Japanese man beat me from time to time with the branch of a tree. This did not do my arms any good at all. The interpreter, who did not seem sympathetic to the whole procedure, held my left hand. I suspected that he wanted to make sure that I remained alive.

The whole operation was a long and agonising sequence of near-drowning, choking, vomiting and muscular struggling with the water flowing with ever-changing force. To put it mildly, it was ghastly, quite the worst experience of my life. There were occasional intervals for interrogation. How long the torture lasted, I do not know. It covered a period of some days, with periods of unconsciousness and semi-consciousness.
[...]
The physical damage suffered by victims of torture can usually be repaired. But the psychological damage can never be repaired. It accompanies victims of torture throughout the rest of their lives. It certainly accompanied me for a long time until the appearance of a news item in The Daily Telegraph in 1986 intimating the establishment of a new organisation, the Medical Foundation for the Care of Victims of Torture. The distinguished director, Helen Bamber, and her staff helped me enormously.
[...]
In case anyone is still in doubt whether the water torture is, or is not, torture I shall refer to a Japanese Army document, which is authoritative. I have an extract from the Japanese Secret War Service Guide, headed '”Fundamental Rules for Interrogating War Prisoners”. This was probably issued in the Kwantung Army in Manchuria in 1938. In the list of “official” tortures item No 3 reads: “Putting the person interrogated on his back (it is advisable to raise the feet a little) and dripping water into the nose and mouth simultaneously.” A later section draws attention to the importance of minimising the disturbance caused by victims' screams.
http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/the_way_we_live/article3476414.ece

The whole piece is well worth reading, btw.

I've never really forgiven the Japanese for their crimes against humanity Sad

there's a litany of their depravity, cruelty and evil

it was only a couple of weeks ago that I put that ghost to rest

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Doc Watson on Fri May 06, 2011 1:02 am

Catherine wrote:
I'd be more worried about the "gormless" bit
not me cos you can not prove it Katerina

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  ISN on Fri May 06, 2011 1:03 am

I did notice a kind of more edgy doc watson on the science thread the other day.......Wink

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  ISN on Fri May 06, 2011 1:05 am

Nah Ville Sky Chick wrote:Eric Lomax was a Japanese prisoner of war. He suffered water torture and I do not think it is the same as waterboarding (but I am happy to be corrected).

Basically Mr Lomax was placed on his back with a cloth over his face, a hosepipe at full force was then held over his nose and mouth, and his stomach filled with water, the feeling was of course that of drowning and he lost conciousness.

he was a British prisoner in a Japanese PoW camp (a few apparently)


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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  ISN on Fri May 06, 2011 1:05 am

Doc Watson wrote:
Catherine wrote:
I'd be more worried about the "gormless" bit
not me cos you can not prove it Katerina

that's OK - just don't call me Cathy affraid

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Nah Ville Sky Chick on Fri May 06, 2011 1:32 am

Catherine wrote:
Nah Ville Sky Chick wrote:Eric Lomax was a Japanese prisoner of war. He suffered water torture and I do not think it is the same as waterboarding (but I am happy to be corrected).

Basically Mr Lomax was placed on his back with a cloth over his face, a hosepipe at full force was then held over his nose and mouth, and his stomach filled with water, the feeling was of course that of drowning and he lost conciousness.

he was a British prisoner in a Japanese PoW camp (a few apparently)


He was a Scottish prisoner in the British Army, convicted by the Japanese and held in a Japanese Prison, to be perfectly clear.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  ISN on Fri May 06, 2011 1:34 am

yeah, hehehe......that's right......last word, Nash.....you done it

so I suppose he wasn't a Japanese prisoner of war then

glad we got that sorted out

I am a pedant....(repeat 500 times)

he probably wasn't a Scottish prisoner in the British Army......though - hehehe sorry

I'm pretty sure the British Army didn't have any Scottish prisoners in it

if you mean he was a Scottish officer in the British Army who was imprisoned by the Japanese

I think we might be getting there

(it's so awful - I can't help myself Embarassed)

sorry....heheheh

(I'm just as tough on myself)

and what exactly do you mean by 'convicted by the Japanese' if it's not too much trouble

I realise you know a lot more about this than I do.......but things just get confused when the right meaning is not communicated

things get fukked up.....look at Pinz and P14......with their endless tit for tats......most of what they're arguing is semantics, a lot of it is bullshit, and the rest of it is vanity......

another edit to add to your collection - it seems Pinz is branching out and taking on SJ now.......good luck with that

I do like to be clear when I write.......


Last edited by Catherine on Fri May 06, 2011 1:59 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Nah Ville Sky Chick on Fri May 06, 2011 1:52 am

Catherine wrote:yeah, hehehe......that's right......last word, Nash.....you done it

so I suppose he wasn't a Japanese prisoner of war then

glad we got that sorted out

I am a pedant....(repeat 500 times)

he probably wasn't a Scottish prisoner in the British Army......though - hehehe sorry

I'm pretty sure the British Army didn't have any Scottish prisoners in it

if you mean he was a Scottish officer in the British Army who was imprisoned by the Japanese

I think we might be getting there

(it's so awful - I can't help myself Embarassed)

sorry....heheheh

(I'm just as tough on myself)

If I were to edit my posts as many times as you do, perhaps I too, could be as perfect as you?

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  ISN on Fri May 06, 2011 1:56 am

don't worry about it - nobody cares - it's all ignorance and stupidity.......people talk complete shit and expect to be taken seriously

you won't be the first

I'm pretty glad I'm able to make myself clear (most of the editing is to add extra information on your mistakes, not mine)

I think getting the correct meaning across is probably the most effective way of using words

but I might be wrong.....

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  ISN on Fri May 06, 2011 2:04 am

Nah Ville Sky Chick wrote:
Catherine wrote:yeah, hehehe......that's right......last word, Nash.....you done it

so I suppose he wasn't a Japanese prisoner of war then

glad we got that sorted out

I am a pedant....(repeat 500 times)

he probably wasn't a Scottish prisoner in the British Army......though - hehehe sorry

I'm pretty sure the British Army didn't have any Scottish prisoners in it

if you mean he was a Scottish officer in the British Army who was imprisoned by the Japanese

I think we might be getting there

(it's so awful - I can't help myself Embarassed)

sorry....heheheh

(I'm just as tough on myself)

If I were to edit my posts as many times as you do, perhaps I too, could be as perfect as you?

perfect clarity and communication is my goal when I write

I'm pretty sure I come across loud and clear

I don't waste words......

that's me - if you don't like it you know what you can do.......(yes, it is arrogant and I'm not proud of it...heheh...just kidding - I just think it's best to use the right word - but I realise that makes me a tosser in most people's eyes......)

take a short walk off a long pier

I mean take a long walk off a short pier

I mean......you know what I mean

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  pinhedz on Fri May 06, 2011 2:11 am

precinct14 wrote:I'm going to keep this fairly brief, so that you don't have to re-edit your reply 4 times, like you did last time:

When Ed Husain writes that bin Laden is more dangerous dead than alive, he's making the point that there won't be any reprisal attacks if there's no reason for one. Now there is.

Your analogy between 9/11 and 7/7 is absurd, and typically disingenuous. The 9/11 terrorists needed all the funding and logistical support, not the 7/7 bombers. Three of them came from Leeds, and lived at home with their families. The 9/11 terrorist were scattered all over the US, and only came together at the end. They also depended on the flight instruction that they received in the US. The 7/7 bombers needed no funding whatsoever- nor did they have to learn how to drive a tube train. All they needed- along with the backpacks, rail tickets, and bomb-making kits- was the indoctrination, and that comes free, in the right mosque.

Husain is right. You might kill bin Laden, but you won't kill the ideology. Here's an extract from the video message of 7/7 bomber Mohammad Sidique Khan, describing his motivation:

'I and thousands like me are forsaking everything for what we believe. Our drive and motivation doesn't come from tangible commodities that this world has to offer. Our religion is Islam, obedience to the one true God and following the footsteps of the final prophet messenger. Your democratically elected governments continuously perpetuate atrocities against my people all over the world. And your support of them makes you directly responsible, just as I am directly responsible for protecting and avenging my Muslim brothers and sisters. Until we feel security you will be our targets and until you stop the bombing, gassing, imprisonment and torture of my people we will not stop this fight. We are at war and I am a soldier. Now you too will taste the reality of this situation.'

Are you trying to tell me that that motivation has disappeared, along with the threat it carries, because bin Laden is dead, and the 'general populations of the middle eastern countries' don't approve of al-Qaeda? Rolling Eyes

Now, do carry on with your sophistical waterboarding of poor old Strawberry Jam. pip pip
Brief is good, but don't fret about the editing--editing is what brings us closer to perfection.

You say there won't be any reprisal attacks unless there's a reason for one? Your 7/7 bombers said in their taped statements that the bombings would continue until the UK stops supporting the US and Israel, so there is a constant call for reprisal, isn't there, whether or not we've taken out a leader recently. What was 911 a reprisal for? Just for being infidel friends of Israel. Appeasement has never worked and never will.

And you think mosques and indoctrination are free? They're huge expenses, requiring constant fund-raising campaigns. Then there's the planning. These coordinated attacks during rush hour with taped messages prepared in advance for extra impact are not spontaneous self-initiated acts. There is planning and direction at a higher level, and an organization that requires care and feeding. The expenses of running the organization are huge, even if the 4 chumps that carried out the plan came cheap (not counting their indoctrination).

You seem to be citing that taped rant as a reliable source. Don't you think the tape was perhaps intended to influence more than to inform? Such tapes will always say that the ideology will never die; they tell you what they want you to believe. Did you really call me disingenuous?

precinct14 wrote: Are you trying to tell me that that motivation has disappeared, along with the threat it carries, because bin Laden is dead, and the 'general populations of the middle eastern countries' don't approve of al-Qaeda?

For a terrorist organization to lose popular approval hurts it big time. And to lose a revered, charismatic leader also hurts; he's not "more dangerous dead than alive." Disappeared? No nothing has disappeared yet--you just made that up.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Nah Ville Sky Chick on Fri May 06, 2011 2:16 am

and what exactly do you mean by 'convicted by the Japanese' if it's not too much trouble


Oh, he was tried and convicted by the Japanese for having a radio and drawing a map.

You may not waste words, but you waste far too many ..............................................................

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  ISN on Fri May 06, 2011 2:21 am

only time will tell, guys.......

sometimes our biggest dilemmas and worries for the future never eventuate

as Shakespeare said "present fears are less than horrible imaginings..." (that quote has often been a comfort to me)

I know you've both invested in some kind of pissing contest which is far removed from what we can expect to see happen and the events that led up to whatever will happen

both of you - each in your own adorable....heheheh......way

are mucking things up.......you're both splitting hairs so much that there's no information left in what you're talking about

you've deviated so far from any real truth as you punch each others lights out

that I'm beginning to think you're not really concerned about the problem

all you're both concerned about is whose version of events is going to come out on top

a sorry reflection on the vacuity of logic when it is stretched to its limits


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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  ISN on Fri May 06, 2011 2:22 am

Nah Ville Sky Chick wrote:
and what exactly do you mean by 'convicted by the Japanese' if it's not too much trouble


Oh, he was tried and convicted by the Japanese for having a radio and drawing a map.

You may not waste words, but you waste far too many ..............................................................

no I don't

tried and convicted - that's a bit preposterous - if you're talking about the real meaning of the words

I don't waste words......I say exactly, completely what I mean to say.......

you may not like it - but you're the one who called Lomax a Japanese prisoner of war.....hee haw

nobody likes being wrong - I mean they don't really care about being wrong - but if someone tells them they're wrong and they are

they tend to have a bit of a tantrum.......

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Nah Ville Sky Chick on Fri May 06, 2011 2:33 am

Catherine wrote:
Nah Ville Sky Chick wrote:
and what exactly do you mean by 'convicted by the Japanese' if it's not too much trouble


Oh, he was tried and convicted by the Japanese for having a radio and drawing a map.

You may not waste words, but you waste far too many ..............................................................

no I don't

tried and convicted - that's a bit preposterous - if you're talking about the real meaning of the words

I don't waste words......I say exactly, completely what I mean to say.......

you may not like it - but you're the one who called Lomax a Japanese prisoner of war.....hee haw

nobody likes being wrong - I mean they don't really care about being wrong - but if someone tells them they're wrong and they are

they tend to have a bit of a tantrum.......

I thought I agreed that you don't waste words, but YOU DO waste far too many.....................................................

We call them Japanese prisoners of war in Peckham Razz


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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  ISN on Fri May 06, 2011 2:41 am

your perception is that I'm wasting words........(you obviously don't know the meaning of the phrase)

because you don't like me

and you accuse me of being all nasty on London's ass

and there you go

I never mentioned London

but your deep....hehehehe

well, not that deep

sense of offence about what I've said about London just goes to show that you have no desire to talk about facts

all you want to talk about is me hating London

and as far as you're concerned - you just don't like me because I don't like London

whoever coined the phrase Japanese prisoner of war had no idea about grammar

you on the other hand - have no interest in grammar

I do - sorry that your little tantrum and desire to have the last word has resurrected your London pride crap

I kind of regret setting you off on your little campaign

because it's actually distracted us from the point of the conversation

which was torture a la Japanese


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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  ISN on Fri May 06, 2011 2:50 am

I suppose that if I were a Pakistani who was detained in an immigration detention centre in Villawood

I would be called an Australian detainee (which as we know is preposterous and contradictory - if you don't know what that means, look it up)

that's just where grammer gets fukked up.....

if you don't have the spare time, the patience, the intelligence, the desire or the inclination to get things right

we could just talk about Peckham......(don't mention the war)

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Nah Ville Sky Chick on Fri May 06, 2011 2:59 am

^^

I'm bored now, I don't feel like wasting any more words on this, so fuck off.

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  ISN on Fri May 06, 2011 3:03 am

hang on - didn't you know - Britain is great - London is a city of bonhomie and conviviality........kindness, all kinds of truth and sincerity - in fact London is not quite the blight on the map that I have hitherto said

Nashie can't discuss things with me because I don't like London

now that's some real objectivity for you right there Razz


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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  Dick Fitzwell on Fri May 06, 2011 3:06 am

Strawberry Jam wrote:I just checked the link you posted, Mack. I hope you do realize that blog is all about spreading prejudice and hatred. It's a horrible site.

Islam deserves it (and no, not because they're "terrorists," but because islam is completely fucked up to its core).

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  ISN on Fri May 06, 2011 3:17 am

you seem to be the expert on Islam

probably not worth me putting in my say

I seem to remember being taught that truth does not depend on fashion or the fickleness of public opinion

I seem to remember being taught that people are different in many ways and that those differences should not divide us

I seem to remember being told that ignorance is contagious to a degree and that intelligence will not prevail against prejudice until people control their atavistic emotions........and 'knee-JERK' reactions....

I would like to point out to you that Islam has a LOT of beauty about it with which right now I am largely unfamiliar

but I really think there is beauty in some of the characteristics, wisdom and strength of feeling in Islam that should be admired in order for us to bridge the gaping maw of prejudice

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

Post  ISN on Fri May 06, 2011 3:25 am

thanks, SJ.......Smile

but I doubt my words will resonate in the loud symphony of hatred

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Re: Bin Laden is dead

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