The Royal Wedding

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Re: The Royal Wedding

Post  Lee Van Queef on Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:50 am

Captain Hi-Top wrote:
Lane Coutell wrote:I think the Queen does a terrific job.

What job?

Errrm, as head of state of the United Kingdom. Good grief, keep up man. Very Happy

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Re: The Royal Wedding

Post  Lee Van Queef on Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:50 am

LaRue wrote:don't sit fermenting in anger.

Possibly my new sig. I'll have to think about it.

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Re: The Royal Wedding

Post  Dick Fitzwell on Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:51 am

Lane Coutell wrote:Errrm, as head of state of the United Kingdom. Good grief, keep up man. Very Happy

What does she do as the head of state? What decisions does she make? What qualifies her to make the decisions she makes?

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Re: The Royal Wedding

Post  pinhedz on Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:51 am

Lane Coutell wrote:Errrm, as head of state of the United Kingdom. Good grief, keep up man. Very Happy
lol! lol! lol! lol!

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Re: The Royal Wedding

Post  Lee Van Queef on Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:52 am

ANDY wrote:
Lane Coutell wrote:Sorry for the sexist observation there.

I wouldn't tell the women over at this board to 'Calm down, sit down and listen to the doctor' if I were you ... silent

LOL, how on earth do you follow British news so closely?

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Re: The Royal Wedding

Post  Lee Van Queef on Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:59 am

Captain Hi-Top wrote:
Lane Coutell wrote:Errrm, as head of state of the United Kingdom. Good grief, keep up man. Very Happy

What does she do as the head of state? What decisions does she make? What qualifies her to make the decisions she makes?

She does lots as head of state. I suggest you look at her diary if you want to get an idea.

What decisions? Well a fair few probaly, such as whether she wants the crusts cut off of her sandwiches, but other than that she makes very few important decisions. Which, as I said earlier, is kind of the point. I would be horrified if she had any sort of power over the running of this country. I believe in democracy, despite it's many faults.

What qualifies her? Well here lies the problem. As I said, I have big problems with the notion of being born into being head of state. I mean, we could replace her with a politican who fancies a big payday who does everything the queen currently does... ie very little. And funnily enough, I think the Queen is very much qualified for her position. She has been Queen since 1950 something. She has seen a lot and spoken in detail with many many past Prime Ministers. Not that that is a defence of the current situation, I just happen to think that on this occasion we found a good egg. Smile

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Re: The Royal Wedding

Post  Lee Van Queef on Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:02 am

ANDY wrote:
As I said before: the French president and his household is more expensive that the British Queen and her legion - even pro capita.
It's probably a complicated matter, but I don't think we should take for granted that it saves money.

And of course, that is also not considering the fact that the Royal family brings in rather big bucks through tourism. Who the fuck cares about the French President? Very Happy

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Re: The Royal Wedding

Post  Dick Fitzwell on Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:03 am

Lane Coutell wrote:She does lots as head of state. I suggest you look at her diary if you want to get an idea.

What decisions? Well a fair few probaly, such as whether she wants the crusts cut off of her sandwiches, but other than that she makes very few important decisions. Which, as I said earlier, is kind of the point. I would be horrified if she had any sort of power over the running of this country. I believe in democracy, despite it's many faults.

What qualifies her? Well here lies the problem. As I said, I have big problems with the notion of being born into being head of state. I mean, we could replace her with a politican who fancies a big payday who does everything the queen currently does... ie very little. And funnily enough, I think the Queen is very much qualified for her position. She has been Queen since 1950 something. She has seen a lot and spoken in detail with many many past Prime Ministers. Not that that is a defence of the current situation, I just happen to think that on this occasion we found a good egg. Smile

So let's recap:
* The Queen is completely ceremonial
* She does a "good job"
* Her job is nothing, which she is very good at

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Re: The Royal Wedding

Post  Lee Van Queef on Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:05 am

Captain Hi-Top wrote:

So let's recap:
* The Queen is completely ceremonial
* She does a "good job"
* Her job is nothing, which she is very good at

I'm presuming you are being somewhat sarcastic Suspect , but in general, yes you have it spot on.

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Re: The Royal Wedding

Post  Dick Fitzwell on Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:07 am

Lane Coutell wrote:I'm presuming you are being somewhat sarcastic Suspect , but in general, yes you have it spot on.

So why, when I asked "what job?", did you pretend as if she actually had one?

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Re: The Royal Wedding

Post  eddie on Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:08 am

pinhedz wrote:There is a bit of a problem here--if it's not a divine right, what kind of a right is it? Has anyone explained, post-Charles I, why the royals have the status they have, and why it is inherited through blood lines?

Guacamayo would probably call it "Magic"- see thread in the Science section.

Sociologists would probably indicate a (quite absurd) degree of self-identification in the relationship between subject and the prince and his bride.

As I state above, the thing is ridiculous but it works because people are ridiculous.

If you're looking for an entirely rationalist constitution, look no further than that of the old Soviet Union...and we all know how long that lasted and what freedom it gave its universally merry people.


Last edited by eddie on Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:13 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The Royal Wedding

Post  pinhedz on Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:11 am

I think she once said she has duties in the sphere of diplomacy and protocol. But I remember she made a public appearance in the US one time and she was not a very good speaker, and the jokes were lame.

I remember that the Duke of Windsor was Governor of the Bahamas for a time, but I don't recall Prince Charles ever doing anything other than public appearances. He sometimes promoted worthy causes.

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Re: The Royal Wedding

Post  pinhedz on Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:13 am

eddie wrote:If you're looking for an entirely rationalist constitution, look no further than that of the old Soviet Union...
That system was irrational--and totalitarian.

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Re: The Royal Wedding

Post  eddie on Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:15 am

pinhedz wrote:
eddie wrote:If you're looking for an entirely rationalist constitution, look no further than that of the old Soviet Union...
That system was irrational--and totalitarian.

Well, yes...that was my point.

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Re: The Royal Wedding

Post  pinhedz on Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:17 am

eddie wrote:Sociologists would probably indicate a (quite absurd) degree of self-identification in the relationship between subject and the prince and his bride.
I think that's the royal family's real job, but I didn't realize what a big deal that still is.

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Re: The Royal Wedding

Post  Lee Van Queef on Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:20 am

Captain Hi-Top wrote:
Lane Coutell wrote:I'm presuming you are being somewhat sarcastic Suspect , but in general, yes you have it spot on.

So why, when I asked "what job?", did you pretend as if she actually had one?

What do you mean pretend? I didn't pretend anything. The Queen clearly has a job, she is a busy gal, even at 85 or whatever age she is. She is the ceremonial head of state. Here in the UK we keep head of state seperate from our Government. I'm aware the US has executive presidencies, but there are more than one way to skin a cat. Some do not believe they should be the same. Republican states have problems too. A good example of a monarchy working well against a Republic is the role Juan Carlos played in cementing Spain as as a parliamentary democracy after the death of Franco. No doubt guacamayo knows a great deal more about that than I do.

If I really wanted to stir the pot, I could also look at other instances of where the lack of a monarch created trouble--Hitler took power as Fuhrer by assuming power of both Chancellor and President. I suspect he'd have still taken power, but not unconditionally, if there was a monarch. Okay, no, let's not go there. Laughing (isn't there a word for whenever message forum threads result in discussing Hitler?)





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Re: The Royal Wedding

Post  Lee Van Queef on Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:23 am

ANDY wrote:
eddie wrote:
the thing is ridiciculous but it works because people are ridiculous.

That's a brilliiant way of putting it, Eddie.

Agreed.

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Re: The Royal Wedding

Post  Dick Fitzwell on Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:28 am

Lane Coutell wrote:The Queen clearly has a job, she is a busy gal, even at 85 or whatever age she is.

Give me a fucking break. My grandfather is 91 and does more strenuous tasks every day than the Queen has ever done in her entire fucking lifetime, and he is a veteran of World War II. Those people deserve respect. The Queen does not.

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Re: The Royal Wedding

Post  pinhedz on Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:30 am

[quote="ANDY"]
pinhedz wrote:
But what was irrational about it?
The Marxist description of how socialism would work notes that under capitalism, people are greedy and unscrupulous. Then they describe the workings of a socialist system, all the time under the assumption that people are selfless and altruistic.

It turned out that socialism actually did nothing to improve human nature. If you could improve human nature, people could be selfless and altruistic under a capitalist system.

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Re: The Royal Wedding

Post  Lee Van Queef on Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:35 am

Captain Hi-Top wrote:
Lane Coutell wrote:The Queen clearly has a job, she is a busy gal, even at 85 or whatever age she is.

Give me a fucking break. My grandfather is 91 and does more strenuous tasks every day than the Queen has ever done in her entire fucking lifetime, and he is a veteran of World War II. Those people deserve respect. The Queen does not.

Okay, just so I can keep up, your issue is now that she is lazy, spoilt or what? I agree that she is spoilt, but she is the Queen, what do you expect? Laughing

She clearly is a busy lady. She is always visiting places and having to meet gormless people who want to shake her hand. You also shouldn't underestimate her importance as a diplomatic servant. Only later this year she is to visit the Republic of Ireland. This is to be the first state visit to the Irish Republic by a British monarch. Kind of a big deal. A major deal? No, she should never be a major deal when it comes to such important matters, but she is playing her part in increasingly the close relationship between Britain and Ireland... One, which I am sure you are aware, isn't always rosey.

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Re: The Royal Wedding

Post  Dick Fitzwell on Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:40 am

Lane Coutell wrote:Okay, just so I can keep up, your issue is now that she is lazy, spoilt or what? I agree that she is spoilt, but she is the Queen, what do you expect? Laughing

I have issue with everything about her entire existence. Why should you assume I only have one issue with your bullshit monarch?

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Re: The Royal Wedding

Post  Lee Van Queef on Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:42 am

ANDY wrote:I find it rather odd to see someone living in a republic reacting so emotionally to the existence of monarchy, while on the other hand (almost) all people living in a monarchy here have stated that they aren't royalists at all but really just don't mind it that much either.

Ha, yes a very good and valid obersvation.

Although I have some sympathy. I can only imagine that a lot of US news stations are full of coverage of a wedding that has little to do with them, maybe throw in a couple of interviews of over-the-top crying Americans saying this is a great day, just how God intended it to be, etc.... I imagine it would be easy to get frustrated. Very Happy

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Re: The Royal Wedding

Post  Dick Fitzwell on Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:42 am

ANDY wrote:I find it rather odd to see someone living in a republic reacting so emotionally to the existence of monarchy

You find it odd that someone living in a republic that was created in defiance of monarchy and everything monarchs stood for is reacting emotionally to the existence of monarchy?

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Re: The Royal Wedding

Post  Lee Van Queef on Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:43 am

Captain Hi-Top wrote:
Lane Coutell wrote:Okay, just so I can keep up, your issue is now that she is lazy, spoilt or what? I agree that she is spoilt, but she is the Queen, what do you expect? Laughing

I have issue with everything about her entire existence. Why should you assume I only have one issue with your bullshit monarch?

No system is perfect. I mean, who would I prefer as a head of state...... Queen Elizabeth II or President George Bush Jr? clown

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Re: The Royal Wedding

Post  Dick Fitzwell on Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:44 am

Lane Coutell wrote:
Captain Hi-Top wrote:
Lane Coutell wrote:Okay, just so I can keep up, your issue is now that she is lazy, spoilt or what? I agree that she is spoilt, but she is the Queen, what do you expect? Laughing

I have issue with everything about her entire existence. Why should you assume I only have one issue with your bullshit monarch?

No system is perfect. I mean, who would I prefer as a head of state...... Queen Elizabeth II or President George Bush Jr? clown

Well "head of state" to you means "the person that waves and people and shakes hands," so I guess it doesn't actually matter either way, does it?

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Re: The Royal Wedding

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