Where there any great Engllish composers?

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Where there any great Engllish composers?

Post  pinhedz on Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:56 am

pinhedz

John Renbourn once commented that a great deal of wunnerful music comes from England, but under close examination it is often traceable to Ireland or Scotland.

Still, he said, there was a brief period when the greatest classical music in the world was being written by English composers, although this period was brief.

I'm not sure exactly what period Renbourn had in mind--maybe the Elizabethan era, or maybe the restoration.

Without thinking too hard I can immediately think of three great English composers:
-- William Byrd (1540-1623), organist in Queen Elizabeth's chapel--and a catholic.
-- John Dowland (1563-1626)
-- Henry purcell (1659-1695)

Any others?


pinhedz

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Thomas Morley (1558-1602), who wrote tunes for Shakespeare's plays, like "The Frog Galliard."


Cook Pass Babtridge

What about Benjamin Britten? Or is he too new-skool? Same goes for Elgar.


pinhedz

Britten and Elgar were great English composers, but I'm looking for the "era" that Renbourn had in mind when he said the English were the greatest in the world. Britten and Elgar lived and worked during an era when I'd say the world's greatest composers were Russian.

The Elizabethan composers, it could be argued, might have been the greatest of their era, although there is serious competition from the Italians, like Claudio Monteverdi.

Henry Purcell might have been the greatest composer of his time, and I might argue that myself, although he overlapped a bit with Archangelo Corelli.


Bullfrog

I'd put in a mention for Thomas Tallis and Orlando Gibbons (apparently Glenn Gould's favourite composer)


powerpete

Wrong period again, but I've just begun to discover Granville Bantock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granville_Bantock

My starting point was this CD, and it's beautiful
http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/al.asp?al=CDA66450&f=bantock


TinyMontgomery

John Dunstable (1390-1453) would be a bit too early, wouldn't he?
His musical ideas were certainly very influential.


pinhedz

To my mind there is no such thing as "too early."


TinyMontgomery

Very Happy


Hosni




pinhedz

I like him, but what's with that switchboard thingy on the wall? Was he dabbling in electronic music using 1940s technology?


TinyMontgomery

R.V.W.!!


precinct14

Name me one great American 14th century composer.


pinhedz

Huitzilin of Nahuatl


precinct14

pinhedz wrote:Huitzilin of Nahuatl
Didn't he have the arrow stand at Ironagestock?

pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11694
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Where there any great Engllish composers?

Post  pinhedz on Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:07 am

pinhedz

precinct14 wrote:Didn't he have the arrow stand at Ironagestock?
She had a voice as beautiful as a hummingbird. And so, she came to be called "Huitzilin."


precinct14

pinhedz wrote:
precinct14 wrote:Didn't he have the arrow stand at Ironagestock?
She had a voice as beautiful as a hummingbird. And so, she came to be called "Huitzilin."
What label is she on?


pinhedz

Oral Tradition Ltd.

While it's difficult to trace who wrote what at this late date, I believe I've heard her work chanted by Clyde Bellecourt, Eddie Benton-Banai, Russell Means and their associates at various outdoor rallies.


pinhedz

Fun fact--Clyde Bellecourt did hard time at the infamous Red Wing reformatory.


Eddie

Thomas Tallis
Something's bothered me for ages, and I hope the learned ATU community will sort it out for me.

Thomas Tallis is said to be buried in St Alfge's church in Greenwich. In a novel by (I think) Huxley, a character speaks of cracking a hard-boiled egg on the tomb of Tallis.

But no such tomb exists.....


pinhedz

I've heard Clyde Bellecourt sing, but I do not find him singing on youtube.

But have no fear, here's Raven Hart-Bellecourt (daughter of Vernon Bellecourt) on youtube:



pinhedz

Here are a few verses from a much longer song:

Forward flowed the river of ice,
Faster than a war canoe,
But the girl would not leave her village,
Even as the ice was crushing it.

"I am to blame" cried the girl,
"It comes to punish me!"
And so she perished there
in the path of the river of ice.


pinhedz

The way I heard that, the girl sacrificed herself to the glacier, and refused to leave, even when her family begged her to flee with the other villagers.

But there is another version on the web, attributed to a researcher named George A. Hall.

This is the way he tells it:

"The Glacier Bay story of the Tcukanadi clan recalls a time when the basin held a glacier and freshwater lake at one end, from which a large river flowed to the sea. Geologists have found evidence of such a lake in what is now the East Arm of Glacier Bay, while ecologists have discerned from relic tree stumps the prior existence of a lowland spruce and hemlock forest. The clan legend tells of an ancestral village in this valley where the Tcukanadi, together with three other clans, enjoyed an abundance of all kinds of salmon. Their occupation of this place came to a swift end when a teenage girl of the village, weary of her confinement during menstruation, whistled through some charmed fish bones to beckon the glacier's spirit. Once set in motion, the glacier was unstoppable. The people held a council and decided they must abandon their village while the girl, Kaasteen, would remain as a sacrifice. According to Amy Marvin's rendering of the story, they waited till the end to depart, sitting in their canoes while water flooded the village and the house containing Kaasteen "slid downward...to the bottom of the sea before their eyes." At that moment the clan chief sang a song with the refrain "pity my house" and "pity my land." The four clans separated, and while three established villages at points along Icy Strait, the fourth clan, the Tcukanadi, went to the present site of Hoonah. The Glacier Bay story, handed down from generation to generation by oral tradition, makes no pretense of dating these events. It seems that the Tcukanadi possess a cultural memory of a distant time before the Little Ice Age, several centuries ago."

George A. Hall, "The Stories of Glacier Bay Collected at Hoonah, Alaska," unpublished file report at SITK, July 1960, n.p.; Nora Marks Dauenhauer and Richard Dauenhauer, eds., Haa Shuka, Our Ancestors: Tlingit Oral Narratives (Seattle, 1987), pp.245-261 and 261-293; quotation on p.285.


pinhedz

And yet another variant, from a course taught by the Alaska Native Knowledge Network (ANKN). In this one, the grandmother sacrifices herself so that the girl can live:

"The text of this unit is a Tlingit legend, "Glacier Bay History," told by Susie James, transcribed and translated by Nora Dauenhauer and available from the Sealaska Heritage Foundation in Juneau. A summary, written by Richard Dauenhauer, follows:

In this story the granddaughter, Kaasteen, violates a tabu of her people by calling to the Glacier which results in the destruction of the village and the local ecosystem. Someone then has to pay the price of violating respect for these natural and spiritual forces. In this version the grandmother, Shaawat Seek', stays behind in place of the young granddaughter, Kaasteen. The woman in the ice is the older woman and the emphasis is placed on the sacrifice of the grandmother, on the Tlingit tradition of "standing in," and accepting the responsibility not only for one 'sown actions, but the actions of others."


pinhedz

And there's more; ain't the internet grand?

Du een yoo x' adudli.atk.
"Tleik' !
Tleik' !
Tlel yaax yei kkwagoot.
Tlel yaax yei kkwagoot.
Cg'a waa yeikuwaat' dei saya ..."
.
.
.

"Pity your mother, take pity on your father."
They begged her.
"No! No! I won't go aboard.
I won't go aboard.
What I said will stain my face forever."
She didn't deny it.
"What I said will stain my face forever;
This is why I won't go aboard;
It won't happen."
That is why they gave up on her.
That is why they said "Let's go!
But let's take thing to her.
We can't just leave her this way.
But, yes, let's go!"
They began going to her
with things that would keep,
Her paternal aunts, all of them,
With all of us going to her
With things for her food.
"For Kaasteen to eat!
For Kaasteen to eat!"
in this way they brought
Whatever might keep her warm,
The skins of whatever was killed and dried.
"For Kaatseen!" In this way,
They turned and left her.


pinhedz

Somehow this thread got hijacked by native-American songs about fearsome advancing glaciers.

Let's get back on track with Glenn Gould's favorite composer:




Hosni

I've seen over 30 films about Glenn Gould.


Last edited by pinhedz on Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11694
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Where there any great Engllish composers?

Post  eddie on Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:52 am

If there WHERE, they must all have been as sozzLLed as EngLLishmen generally are... drunken

eddie
The Gap Minder

Posts : 7840
Join date : 2011-04-11
Age : 61
Location : Desert Island

Back to top Go down

Re: Where there any great Engllish composers?

Post  pinhedz on Tue May 22, 2012 7:13 am

This just in--Georg Friedrich Händel (23 February 1685 – 14 April 1759) became a naturalised British subject in 1727, so--technically--we could consider him to be a great English composer.

But that's really a stretch, isn't it? A conductor who yells at his singers things like "Dumkopf! Dit you not tell mich zat you coult sing at sight?" Razz

pinhedz
Schrödinger's Hepcat

Posts : 11694
Join date : 2011-04-11
Location : DC

http://www.balalaika.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Where there any great Engllish composers?

Post  Yakima Canutt on Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:00 pm


Ronald "Ronnie" Hazlehurst - BBC Light Entertainment Musical Director, "ARE YOU BEING SERVED?" theme tune composer, toadstool sculpture & figurine collector, amateur sleuth.


THE ORIGINAL IS STILL THE GREATEST.

Yakima Canutt

Posts : 8355
Join date : 2011-04-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Where there any great Engllish composers?

Post  Sponsored content Today at 7:22 am


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum