ATU--The Movie, EPISODE I (with epilogue part 1 and 2) -- and EPISODE II -- and EPISODE III -- and EPISODE IV -- and EPISODE V -- and EPISODE VI

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Re: ATU--The Movie, EPISODE I (with epilogue part 1 and 2) -- and EPISODE II -- and EPISODE III -- and EPISODE IV -- and EPISODE V -- and EPISODE VI

Post  pinhedz on Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:32 am

I've been getting PMs from people admonishing me about Ruslana, Svetlana and Grushchenka.

The essence of the remonstrations is along the lines of "Yo! Pinz, it seems like you have alot of girl crushes for a married guy!" bounce

I just want to say that it isn't just guys that are like this; Mrs. Pinz says that Antonio Banderas is the hottest thing she's seen in her whole life, and (even though she doesn't watch "Sleepy Hollow"), she says that Ichabod is the hottest dude with facial hair.

pinhedz
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Re: ATU--The Movie, EPISODE I (with epilogue part 1 and 2) -- and EPISODE II -- and EPISODE III -- and EPISODE IV -- and EPISODE V -- and EPISODE VI

Post  pinhedz on Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:38 am

I must have a heart-to-heart with Ruslana tomorrow.

While the rest of us will be heading east to Donetsk, she will be off, alone, on her mission to distract Putin with her Miley Cyrus outfit--a perilous mission that could go terribly wrong. Neutral

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Re: ATU--The Movie, EPISODE I (with epilogue part 1 and 2) -- and EPISODE II -- and EPISODE III -- and EPISODE IV -- and EPISODE V -- and EPISODE VI

Post  Yakima Canutt on Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:27 pm

Yakima Canutt wrote:
Yakima Canutt wrote:
Yakima Canutt wrote:
Yakima Canutt wrote:
Introducing: Machete Order

But there is a further modification that has been named by the networks "Machete Order"

Next time you want to introduce someone to Star Wars for the first time, watch the films with them in this order: IV, V, II, III, VI

Notice something? Yeah, Episode I is gone.

Episodes II and III aren't exactly Shakespeare, but standing next to the complete and utter trainwreck that is Episode I, they sure look like it. At least, III does anyway. [ some would argue that cinematically, II sucks more than I, but II contains salient narrative information]

Episode I is a failure on every possible level, some have posited. Luckily, George Lucas has done everyone a favor by making the content of Episode I completely irrelevant to the rest of the series. Seriously, think about it for a minute. Name as many things as you can that happen in Episode I and actually help flesh out the story in any subsequent episode. I can only think of one thing, which I'll mention later.

Every character established in Episode I is either killed or removed before it ends (Darth Maul, Qui-Gon, Chancellor Valorum), unimportant (Nute Gunray, Watto), or established better in a later episode (Mace Windu, Darth Sidious). Does it ever matter that Palpatine had an apprentice before Count Dooku? Nope, Darth Maul is killed by the end of Episode I and never referenced again. You may as well just start with the assumption that Dooku was the only apprentice. Does it ever matter that Obi-Wan was being trained by Qui-Gon? Nope, Obi-Wan is well into training Anakin at the start of Episode II, Qui-Gon is completely irrelevant.

Search your feelings, you know it to be true! Episode I doesn't matter at all. You can start the prequels with Episode II and miss absolutely nothing. The opening crawl of Episode II establishes everything you need to know about the prequels: a bunch of systems want to leave the Republic, they are led by Count Dooku, and Senator Amidala is a senator who is going to vote on whether the Republic is going to create an army. Natalie Portman is called Senator Amidala twice in the first 4 minutes of the movie, so there's no question of who's who.

But what have we removed???

Here's some stuff that you no longer have to see as part of your Star Wars viewing experience, thanks to skipping Episode I.


Buh-bye, Binks!

*Virtually no Jar-Jar. Jar-Jar has about 5 lines in Episode II, and zero in Episode III.

*No midichlorians. There is only one reference to midichlorians after Episode I, and in the context it appears to mean something as benign as "DNA."

*No Jake Lloyd. Sorry Jake, your acting is terrible and I never really wanted to see Darth Vader as a little boy.

*No confusing Padme/Queen switcheroo. The whole subplot with Padme and her decoy makes absolutely no sense. It's clear that this was just so people could interact with Padme without knowing she was the Queen, but it's incredibly convoluted and pointless.

*Less confusing master/apprentice relationships. Darth Sidious is training Count Dooku, Obi-Wan is training Anakin. No other trainer/trainee relationships exist to confuse the backstory.

*Fewer characters to learn about, so the story is more focused.

*Nothing about trade disputes. The "problem" as of Episode II is that a group of systems want to leave the Republic. This is much easier to understand for a kid than trade disputes.

*No pod racing. Seriously, who gives a shit? An action sequence for the sake of an action sequence and it goes on forever. A huge number of plot holes surrounding gambling and the subsequent freeing of Anakin are removed as well.

*No virgin birth. We simply don't know or care who Anakin's father is, and the subtle implication that it's Palpatine is gone.

But booting Episode I isn't merely about pretending a crappy movie doesn't exist. Viewing Episode II immediately after V and Episode III immediately before VI actually tells the story better than including Episode I does.


Why does this work better?

As I mentioned, this creates a lot of tension after the cliffhanger ending of Episode V. It also uses the original trilogy as a framing device for the prequel trilogy. Vader drops this huge bomb that he's Luke's father, then we spend two movies proving he's telling the truth, then we see how it gets resolved. The Star Wars watching experience gets to start with the film that does the best job of establishing the Star Wars universe, Episode IV, and it ends with the most satisfying ending, Episode VI. It also starts the series off with the two strongest films, and allows you to never have to either start or end your viewing experience with a shitty movie. Two films of Luke's story, two films of Anakin's story, then a single film that intertwines and ends both stories.

Beyond this, Episode I establishes Anakin as a cute little kid, totally innocent. But Episode II quickly establishes him as impulsive and power-hungry, which keeps his character consistent with eventually becoming Darth Vader. Obi-Wan never really seems to have any control over Anakin, struggling between treating him as a friend (their very first conversation together in Episode II) and treating him as an apprentice (their second conversation, with Padme). Anakin is never a carefree child yelling "yippee", he's a complex teenager nearly boiling over with rage in almost every scene. It makes much more sense for Anakin to have always been this way.

In the opening of Episode II, Padme refers to Anakin as "that little boy I knew on Tatooine." The two of them look approximately the same age in Episode II, so the viewer can naturally conclude that the two of them were friends as children. This completely hides the totally weird age gap between them from Episode I, and lends a lot of believability to the subsequent romance. Scenes in which they fall for each other seem to build on a childhood friendship that we never see but can assume is there. Since their relationship is the eventual reason for Anakin's fall to the dark side, having it be somewhat believable makes a big difference.

Obi-Wan now always has a beard for the entire duration of the series, and Anakin Skywalker always wears black. Since these two characters are played by different actors (and are the only characters in the series with such a distinction), having them look visually consistent does a great deal toward reinforcing they are the same people.

This order also preserves both twists. George Lucas knew that watching the films in Episode Order would remove the Vader twist, so he added the Palpatine twist to compensate. Since we don't really meet the Emperor until Episode VI (you only see him for one scene, in hologram, in V), this order preserves the twist around Palpatine taking over as Emperor. Episode I establishes that Darth Sidious is manipulating the Trade Federation in the opening scene of the film, and it's pretty obvious Sidious is Palpatine. But if you skip Episode I, all we ever see is that Count Dooku is leading a separatist movement, all on his own. Dooku tells Obi-Wan that the Senate is under the control of a Sith lord named "Darth Sidious", but at the end of the movie, after Dooku flees from Geonosis, he meets with his "master", who turns out to be Darth Sidious. This is the first time we realize that the separatist movement is actually being controlled by Sidious, and it's the first time we see him, which doesn't give the audience a chance to realize he's Palpatine (remember, nobody has ever referred to "Emperor Palpatine" by this point in the series).

Machete Order also keeps the fact that Luke and Leia are siblings a surprise, it simply moves the surprise to Episode III instead of VI, when Padme announces her daughter's name. This is actually a more effective twist in this context than when Obi-Wan just tells Luke in Return of the Jedi. We get to find out before Luke, and we discover she's carrying twins along with Obi-Wan when the Gynobot tells him. Luke's name is first, so when Padme names the other kid "Leia" it's a pretty shocking reveal. As an added bonus, there are now about 5 hours of film between the discovery that they are siblings and the time they kissed.


What Works Best?

Best of all, this order (  IV, V, II, III, VI ) actually makes a particular tension in Return of the Jedi stronger.

Remember, we see in Episode V that Luke's vision in the cave on Degobah is that he turns into Darth Vader, then we find out Vader is his father. Then we watch Episodes II and III, in which his father turns to the dark side in order to protect his loved ones. After that we go back to VI, where eventually Luke confronts the Emperor.

Remember that we never saw Anakin as a little kid, he's about the same age the first time we see him as Luke was in Episode VI. Hayden Christensen's incessant whining in Episode II is actually less annoying now, because it's helping to link the character to Luke, who was just as whiny in Episode IV. In other words, because we skipped Episode I, the parallels between Luke and Anakin are much stronger. We've seen Obi-Wan train just the two of them, and never had to see anyone training Obi-Wan himself. The viewer is naturally linking the paths of these two characters together at this point.


The first time we see Luke in Return of the Jedi, he's wearing all-black, just like his father did. He gives R2D2 and C-3P0 to Jabba the Hutt, much to their surprise. Luke isn't exactly looking like a clean-cut Jedi like he claims. Then, when he finally enters Jabba's palace, the musical cue sounds a bit like the Imperial March, and the way he enters with the light behind him makes it unclear if he is Luke or Vader. Then, he force chokes Jabba's guards, something only Vader has done in the series! Nobody else sees him do this.

When he confronts Jabba, he warns him that he's taking his friends back. He says Jabba can either profit from this, "or be destroyed." Furthermore, he tells Jabba "not to underestimate my power." The last time this phrase was used, it was by Anakin when dueling Obi-Wan. When watching Jedi on its own, Luke just seems a tad arrogant during these scenes. When watching Jedi immediately after watching Revenge of the Sith, the message is clear: Luke Skywalker is on the path to the Dark Side.

Why does this matter? Because at the end of Jedi, Luke confronts the Emperor. The Emperor explains that the assault on the new Death Star is a trap and that his friends are going to die, and he keeps taunting Luke, telling him to grab his lightsaber and fight him. The film is trying to create a tension that Luke might embrace the Dark Side, but it was never really believable. However, within the context of him following in his father's footsteps and his father using the power of the dark side to save people, with Luke's friends being killed just outside the Death Star window, this is much more believable.

Shortly after, Luke goes apeshit and beats the hell out of Vader, clearly succumbing to his anger. He overpowers Vader with rage and cuts his arm off, just like Anakin did to Windu in Episode III. Having the very real threat of Luke following in his father's path made clear by watching II and III before VI heightens the tension of this scene, and it actually makes Return of the Jedi better. Yes, watching Revenge of the Sith makes Return of the Jedi a better, more effective film. Considering it's the weakest of the original trilogy films, this improvement is welcome.


The Qui-Gon Issue

The most common complaint about Machete Order ( IV, V, II, III, VI ) by far, is that it eliminates Qui-Gon, and he's important (or that his lightsaber battle is "cool"). Since this is so common, I thought I'd respond to it in this very post. Because it's just not long enough, right?

The argument goes, Qui-Gon is extremely important, because it's his intense desire to train Anakin that Obi-Wan feels responsible to continue when Qui-Gon dies. Obi-Wan wasn't truly ready to be a teacher, so as a result Anakin is poorly trained and that's why he's so susceptible to the dark side. In this way, Qui-Gon "may arguably be the most important character of the whole series" (this is a direct quote from a comment).

People who make this argument say that the saga is only understandable with Episode I included. I disagree, and I think it's easy to illustrate why.

Imagine for a second that George Lucas releases an Episode 0. In Episode 0, we see that Qui-Gon moves away from his family's home on Blahtooine, leaving behind his sister and mother to go become a Jedi. After many years, he returns home to visit his family and discovers they have new neighbors. One of the neighbors is a young boy who seems to have some degree of force sensitivity. He asks Qui-Gon if he is a Jedi and says he wants to be a Jedi too, but Qui-Gon tells him that he's too old to begin training, and rules are rules.

Fast forward a few years and the neighbor kid has become quite adept at force manipulation. Unfortunately, with no formal training he cannot really control his powers, and accidentally kills his family, as well as his neighbors -- including Qui-Gon's mother and sister -- and himself. Qui-Gon returns to his home to find his family dead, and blames this on the Jedi order's prohibitions against training older children. Qui-Gon argues to Yoda that, if the boy had been able to receive training, his family would still be alive.

Now, when we watch Episode I, we have a new answer to a "why" question, we understand why Qui-Gon so strongly wants to train Anakin. Episode 0 provides explanatory power to the series. If someone wrote a blog post about a Machete Order Prime which is simply Episodes 1-6 in order, without Episode 0, you'd be forced to argue this order is unacceptable, because it completely ignores the reason why Qui-Gon insists on training Anakin. Machete Order Prime, by the very logic used to argue against Machete Order, is not acceptable. And yet, it's the EXACT order we are currently faced with when we include Episode I.

This can go back forever. Episode Minus I comes out and shows why the young force sensitive child and his family had to move away from their home and go to Blahtooine, because the parents lost their job at the corporate Moisture Farm or something. Episode Minus II comes out and explains why the Moisture Farm had to cut expenses that led to the firing or whatever.

The fact of the matter is, we don't really need to understand WHY Anakin is even susceptible to the dark side. In fact, it makes him more sympathetic if the reason is simply "it's tempting" or "to save his wife". But we're actually given the why in the elevator scene in Episode II - Obi-Wan is a shitty teacher who has no control over Anakin and who Anakin sees himself as better than. Qui-Gon only provides an answer to "why is Obi-Wan so unprepared to have a Padawan?", but at what point are you so far away from the central characters that the why's stop mattering? Everything that happens has some kind of cause, and at some point those causes happen off-screen, in prequels that don't exist. Qui-Gon is two why's removed from what's interesting here, which is the reason it is completely unnecessary and serves only to distract from the central narrative that Machete Order tries to emphasize.



“I'd always envisioned it as six movies.  When you see it in six parts you'll understand that it really ends at part six.” – George Lucas (1997)

It has never been made official that the Star Wars films have to be watched in chronological order, from Episode I straight through to VI. George Lucas has said that the sixth part is ultimately the final piece of the puzzle, but what is the best way to reach this concluding chapter? It is sometimes assumed that watching in numerical order is the best way, but as we demonstrated last year, watching the prequels before the originals works well, too.

Personally, I feel that watching the Star Wars movies from Episode I through to VI doesn’t work. The story feels disjointed, tension builds haphazardly, and the overall experience is messy. I used to be a fan of the original trilogy, but the prequels, since their appearance, had left a bitter taste that was hard to ignore.

A couple of weeks ago, I came across this MACHETE ORDER, that promised to improve the viewing experience of the entire saga by changing the order of the films. Though slightly sceptical, I was intrigued. Could Star Wars regain its magic?

This particular arrangement of Star Wars episodes has been christened the Machete Order. To summarise, it chops out Episode I completely, and encourages the viewer to watch the films in the following order: IV, V, II, III and finally VI.

I decided to give it a go to see if the Machete Order could resuscitate this once great franchise for me. For five consecutive mornings I pulled shut the blinds, sat down on the sofa with my pet tortoise, Monty, and let the iconic titles roll. I must say to a large extent it has allowed me to overcome my differences with the saga, and appreciate the web of storytelling that George Lucas had spun throughout it. In fact, by the end of Episode VI, (the fifth and final film I watched), Return Of The Jedi, I was a firm believer that this was story that George Lucas had been trying to tell.

It really did make me wonder, would George Lucas actually approve of the Star Wars Machete Order? There are five benefits to the Machete Order that I believe would sway his opinion...
                               
The phantom elephant



Before starting the Machete Order, I was concerned that by omitting Episode I, The Phantom Menace, I might feel like I was missing out, and just ignoring the elephant in the room. Lucas made it, so surely it is meant to be there? Well, thankfully, because the story now starts with Luke, and Anakin’s backstory is now told as a flashback, the elephant in the room is neither present nor noticeably absent. The story just tells itself without a need for Darth Maul or pod racing. This is probably because all the story elements of The Phantom Menace are either resolved by the end of this movie, or reintroduced in Episode II, Attack Of The Clones.
                                         
The double downer

Episode V, The Empire Strikes Back, the second film in my Machete Order marathon, ends with Luke losing a hand, Han Solo being frozen in carbonite, and the evil Empire appearing indomitable. How can Luke be expected to defeat his dad now? His dad is evil, you don’t know how he got that way, but when he intentionally cuts off his own son’s hand, you know there must be something truly messed up in his past. If you tried to guess, at that point, how the series might end, you could be forgiven for assuming that they’d join forces, strengthening the Emperor’s manipulation through the bond of the Skywalker family. A happy ending is unlikely.

It is then that you watch the extended flashback. Episode II and III chart Anakin’s rise and fall, from Jedi to Sith Lord. By the end of it, even when he screams “Noooo” at the death of Padmé, you cannot see past the betraying child-murderer whose pursuit of power is selfish and ultimately tragic. That is when you would doubt a happy ending the most. How could someone who murders children and kills his own wife – albeit by accident – find redemption?  The answer is simple: they can’t.

Then there is the Emperor. Until this point, the main thread of the story has dealt solely with Luke’s battle with Vader, but to reach a truly happy ending, it is clear that he will also have to defeat the puppet master himself, the Emperor. Seeing the Emperor’s true powers of corruption, the execution of Mace Windu, and the very creation of Vader raises the stakes and makes the challenge ahead for Luke in Episode VI, Return Of The Jedi, the biggest mountain to climb in the entire series. Think Mount Everest, but bigger.

The hubris of Yoda



Yoda is powerful. He can lift a spaceship that is 50 time his size; he can sense the revolution of the clones quicker than any other Jedi (and survives as a result of it) and he is the only Jedi that can catch lightning bolts. While Luke is Darth Vader’s equal, Yoda is the Emperor’s, and so when the Emperor defeats him at the end of Episode III, Revenge Of The Sith, he becomes the greatest failure in the entire saga.

Watching the films in the Machete Order gives greater understanding of Yoda’s troubled past. When he warns Luke “Do not underestimate the power of the Emperor”, you realise he is speaking from experience. It’s is a level of reading that would otherwise be missed. As his defeat at the hands of the Emperor happens only one film prior, his words bite with a bitterness that would be commonly overlooked in the more familiar chronological running order.

The realistic redemption



With the dawn of the prequels, Lucas tried to make people believe that the story has always been about Anakin’s redemption, rather than Luke’s heroism. In the normal order, it can feel like it has just been hammered onto the beginning - almost like Lucas is trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

The Machete Order actually facilitates Lucas’ intention, and works as a story of redemption. To the viewer he is initially an intimidating antagonist. After Episode V, the viewer may hope that the flashback reveals a weakness, or an element of goodness in him, but by that time the flames have peeled the skin from his bones, he has become a monster and a slave to the Emperor’s will.

In the traditional I to VI viewing order, there are two reasons for this monster changing his ways and killing his master of over 20 years. One is that the Emperor is electrocuting his son – that Skywalker bond we expected only with a slightly different outcome. The second is that minutes earlier the Emperor had betrayed this 20-year trust by asking Vader’s own son to kill him.

Through the Machete Order, there is also a third reason for Vader’s change of heart; there is clear duality between the Emperor’s electrocution of Mace Windu and his attempted murder of Luke. The brainwashing of Anakin, that occurred through shock when Windu was electrocuted into the Coruscant skyline, is washed away. The real realisation for Anakin, now Vader, is that Emperor Palpatine has been the bad guy all along, and as remembers the original incident - he realises the side he picked all those years ago was the wrong one. His subsequent self-sacrifice is the price he willingly pays for correcting the atrocities he committed over the previous 20 years of oppression, which began with one foolish decision decades ago.

The ecstacy of equilibrium



I remember as a child watching Star Wars, the ending always seems bigger than necessary. This became even bigger with the remasters. Yes, the Emperor had been a very, very bad man. But did the entire universe need to celebrate? With just the originals, or even watching the episodes in order, the ending seems more than necessary.

With the Machete Order, the control of the Emperor over the universe feels absolute and tyrannical. His knowledge of the dark side of the force is insurmountable. The end of the Emperor is the greatest day for the universe in 30 years; it gives justification to the scale of the celebrations that follow.

In the traditional order, the story is filled with so many peaks and troughs that it is hard to tell how bleak the Alliance’s hopes are in a dynamic way. The tension and drama builds and resolves so frequently that, by Return Of The Jedi, defeating the Empire really does just feel like just another George Lucas MacGuffin.

Through the use of the double downer in the Machete Order, the mountain that Luke and the Alliance must climb in Episode VI is easier to appreciate. Defeating the Empire and the Sith is what the five films have been building towards. As a result of this, the celebration comes across as proportionate.

Aside from omitting one of the films that he strived to bring to the big screen, I believe Mr Lucas would find the order agreeable. By establishing each film as an episode in a story, there can be no arguments against the possibility of creating a workable Tarantinoesque cross-narrative film series. Just as he is able to remaster his films, we as viewers are also able to redefine the way the story is told. Whether it makes it better is ultimately a matter of opinion.


David Pallant loves film almost as much as his pet tortoise, Monty.


See also:

15 lines that would have dramatically changed the Star Wars franchise

A celebration of the sci-fi ray-gun

The 10 worst crimes against the original Star Wars trilogy

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SIEGEL: Darth Vader and Luke battle over the fate of a vast evil empire. The two come to blows in the second film. And then, they team up as father and son to defeat the empire for good.

CORNISH: So there, OK? So there's three parts - nice, tidy story. Then in the 1990s, George Lucas creates three more episodes, ones that predate the original trilogy - Episodes I, II, III - and they tell us how Luke's father first went bad, back in his younger days.

SIEGEL: There are new films on the way. But to start, there were six films, and Lucas suggests that new viewers watch them in the episode order - one through six.

CORNISH: But blogger Rod Hilton has a better idea. He calls it "machete order."

ROD HILTON: Machete order is watching them in the order - IV, V, II, III, XI. So there's two things about it that make it sort of interesting. And that's, first of all, you're using the prequels as an extended flashback. They're inside of the main trilogy, the original trilogy. So it's sort of like, if you watch a movie and it's like, in a middle of a bank robbery or something and that's how you're introduced to all the characters, and then it cuts to three years earlier or something. And then you get this extended flashback that brings you up to speed with how the main characters decided to rob a bank, and then you have the final climax of the movie. So it sort of makes the prequels a flashback to the rest of the series. And the other thing is that it completely eliminates "Episode I," which is kind of universally despised.

CORNISH: "Episode I - The Phantom Menace," which just came out in 1999 and infamously has the alien Jar Jar Binks. Is this entire order of yours engineered around avoiding Jar Jar Binks?

HILTON: No. Actually, a lot of people think that. A lot of people that read this post I made on the Internet say, yeah, you know, I hate "Episode I," this is a good idea. But it's not just about "Episode I" being removed. It's more that I see the "Star Wars" saga as being Luke's story. He's the character you identify with. He's the character you relate to. And if you watch "Episode IV" first, he's the one you latch on to. He's your main guy.

And it's ultimately the story about Luke saving his father from the dark side and, to an extent, saving himself from being tempted by it as well. And "Episode I" just doesn't add anything to that. It's a distraction. It moves you away from what I consider to be the main narrative. It's just a bunch of background details.

CORNISH: So just to remind people, Machete Order, we're saying, is to watch 1977's "Episode IV, Star Wars" first, right? Like, it's OK to do that.

HILTON: Mm-hmm.

CORNISH: And then watch the 1980 film, "The Empire Strikes Back," and then skip to the one in 2002, "Attack of the Clones," and 2005, "Revenge if the Sith." So it's OK to bring those and now you're kind of flashback mode, right?

HILTON: Yep.

CORNISH: And this would have you ending, as they intended, with "Return of the Jedi," 1983, "Episode XI."

HILTON: Right. "Return of the Jedi" has the best ending. It's - it puts a button on everything. And the empire gets destroyed and it's got this, like, celebration and stuff. So you definitely want to end there.

CORNISH: Your order is not the only kind of alternate order that we see online, right? There are all kinds of suggestions for doing this. And is part of this about fans not quite coming to grips with how George Lucas expanded the story? I mean, it feels like a way to kind of get back at him.

HILTON: I don't know if it's about getting back at him. I think, you know, for a lot of people, "Star Wars" is part of their culture. It's part of how they grew up. In a way, fans - this is going to sound weird, but fans kind of own "Star Wars" as much as George Lucas. They've taken it and put it into their minds, put it into their hearts in a way that maybe a filmmaker alone just can't do. And so I think it's really about - it's sort of just remix culture. It's, I as a fan can improve on this thing I love.

CORNISH: Rod Hilton. His blog is called "Absolutely No Machete Juggling." His suggestion for watching the "Star Wars" saga is called Machete Order. Rod, thanks so much for explaining it to us.

HILTON: Oh, yeah. No problem



Yakima Canutt

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Re: ATU--The Movie, EPISODE I (with epilogue part 1 and 2) -- and EPISODE II -- and EPISODE III -- and EPISODE IV -- and EPISODE V -- and EPISODE VI

Post  pinhedz on Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:08 am

The pinhead awoke so early in the morning and saw that Ruslana had already risen (not saying' that pinhed just rolled over in bed and didn't see her silent --he had to get up and look around).

And so it came to pass that the pinhed stepped out the front door, just in time to see that Ruslana had already mounted her white steed, to ride out over the fields, the fields of green, to ride until she would come unto the great river, and there would she cross the great river, and then she would ride on, until at last she would encounter the evil one -- the fierce Putin …  


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Re: ATU--The Movie, EPISODE I (with epilogue part 1 and 2) -- and EPISODE II -- and EPISODE III -- and EPISODE IV -- and EPISODE V -- and EPISODE VI

Post  pinhedz on Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:18 am

pinhed -- "Ruslana! Don't leave yet; I wanted to have a talk about Putin's great-power-status hangups and his grudges against NATO and his perceptions of American duplicity ..." Neutral

Ruslana -- "I cannot delay, the hour is late and the enemy grows stronger each day. The evil Putin is powerful. A mighty bogatyr cannot fight him. Only a Hutzul maiden can find his weakness. Go quickly--take the others to Donetsk--I will meet you there when my mission is accomplished!" bounce    


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Re: ATU--The Movie, EPISODE I (with epilogue part 1 and 2) -- and EPISODE II -- and EPISODE III -- and EPISODE IV -- and EPISODE V -- and EPISODE VI

Post  pinhedz on Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:23 am

There was nothing left for the pinhed but to go back to the dacha and let the others know that Ruslana was on her way.

He found that Grushchenka and Svetlana were up and fixing breakfast.

pinhed -- "Well, it looks likes it's just the three of us."

Grushchenka -- "Right. That's what Misha used to say." Rolling Eyes

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Re: ATU--The Movie, EPISODE I (with epilogue part 1 and 2) -- and EPISODE II -- and EPISODE III -- and EPISODE IV -- and EPISODE V -- and EPISODE VI

Post  pinhedz on Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:59 am

But what the pinhed and Grushchenka did not guess was that Ruslana knew the Eastern Ukrainians could not (or would not) drive back the Putinites, so she had gone to rally the Ukrainians in the West.


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Re: ATU--The Movie, EPISODE I (with epilogue part 1 and 2) -- and EPISODE II -- and EPISODE III -- and EPISODE IV -- and EPISODE V -- and EPISODE VI

Post  woo on Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:13 am

Hun? What? I thought everyone died all ready after being lost on an island.

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Re: ATU--The Movie, EPISODE I (with epilogue part 1 and 2) -- and EPISODE II -- and EPISODE III -- and EPISODE IV -- and EPISODE V -- and EPISODE VI

Post  pinhedz on Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:24 am

You mean the Italian nuclear physicists and Blake with his Native-American friend?

That still leaves Putin and the Russian physicists and goons. affraid

Ruslana is whipping the younglings into a bloodthirsty frenzy.


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Re: ATU--The Movie, EPISODE I (with epilogue part 1 and 2) -- and EPISODE II -- and EPISODE III -- and EPISODE IV -- and EPISODE V -- and EPISODE VI

Post  Guest on Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:27 pm



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Re: ATU--The Movie, EPISODE I (with epilogue part 1 and 2) -- and EPISODE II -- and EPISODE III -- and EPISODE IV -- and EPISODE V -- and EPISODE VI

Post  pinhedz on Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:40 am

pinhedz wrote:That still leaves Putin and the Russian physicists and goons. affraid

Just because Roald Zinnurovich Sagdeev is no longer married to Susan Eisenhower doesn't mean he's dead. Rolling Eyes

If he's dead, that's news to me. What have you all heard?

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Re: ATU--The Movie, EPISODE I (with epilogue part 1 and 2) -- and EPISODE II -- and EPISODE III -- and EPISODE IV -- and EPISODE V -- and EPISODE VI

Post  pinhedz on Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:46 am

Can we cope in a world that still has Russian physicists, but no Italian physicists?

Sagdeyev pretends to be so peace-loving and avuncular. But what sinister intentions lie beneath the surface? Suspect


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Re: ATU--The Movie, EPISODE I (with epilogue part 1 and 2) -- and EPISODE II -- and EPISODE III -- and EPISODE IV -- and EPISODE V -- and EPISODE VI

Post  pinhedz on Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:53 am

Ruslana is puzzled. scratch

Why Sagdeyev is not loving the rightness of the Hutzul cause?

I must go to him and make him to understand. bounce

" />

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Re: ATU--The Movie, EPISODE I (with epilogue part 1 and 2) -- and EPISODE II -- and EPISODE III -- and EPISODE IV -- and EPISODE V -- and EPISODE VI

Post  pinhedz on Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:58 am

With Sagdeyev in their laboratory, the Hutzuls could easily crush the Putinistas. What a Face

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Re: ATU--The Movie, EPISODE I (with epilogue part 1 and 2) -- and EPISODE II -- and EPISODE III -- and EPISODE IV -- and EPISODE V -- and EPISODE VI

Post  pinhedz on Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:41 am

Some will say that Sagdeyev is too old for Ruslana. Crying or Very sad

But remember that Rasetti was still lively at 101. bounce

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Re: ATU--The Movie, EPISODE I (with epilogue part 1 and 2) -- and EPISODE II -- and EPISODE III -- and EPISODE IV -- and EPISODE V -- and EPISODE VI

Post  Guest on Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:49 am



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Re: ATU--The Movie, EPISODE I (with epilogue part 1 and 2) -- and EPISODE II -- and EPISODE III -- and EPISODE IV -- and EPISODE V -- and EPISODE VI

Post  pinhedz on Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:56 am

I'd forgotten how pretentious he was. 12 minutes of organ noodling in one key. Rolling Eyes

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Re: ATU--The Movie, EPISODE I (with epilogue part 1 and 2) -- and EPISODE II -- and EPISODE III -- and EPISODE IV -- and EPISODE V -- and EPISODE VI

Post  Yakima Canutt on Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:55 pm


Ali Akbar Khan didn't change keys either. Jerk. Rolling Eyes

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Re: ATU--The Movie, EPISODE I (with epilogue part 1 and 2) -- and EPISODE II -- and EPISODE III -- and EPISODE IV -- and EPISODE V -- and EPISODE VI

Post  pinhedz on Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:16 pm

Ali Akbar Khan wasn't noodling, mush for brains.

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Re: ATU--The Movie, EPISODE I (with epilogue part 1 and 2) -- and EPISODE II -- and EPISODE III -- and EPISODE IV -- and EPISODE V -- and EPISODE VI

Post  Yakima Canutt on Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:41 pm

I was sarcastically calling Khan a jerk for not changing keys, I was not provoking fallacious ad hominem assaults. The point is that improvisational quality is irrelevant to staying in the same key, which countless musical traditions do.  I would argue that patience-trying, trance-like musics such as by The Doors would actually become more tedious with key changes.  But that could be a matter of taste stemming from my residency with the Minimalist Academy of World Tone Jihad.

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Re: ATU--The Movie, EPISODE I (with epilogue part 1 and 2) -- and EPISODE II -- and EPISODE III -- and EPISODE IV -- and EPISODE V -- and EPISODE VI

Post  Yakima Canutt on Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:28 pm


indeed - i looked it up, GropiusHub categorizes THE END jam as "raga rock", so staying in the same key is part of the shebang


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Re: ATU--The Movie, EPISODE I (with epilogue part 1 and 2) -- and EPISODE II -- and EPISODE III -- and EPISODE IV -- and EPISODE V -- and EPISODE VI

Post  Yakima Canutt on Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:35 pm

now that we have exposed arbitrary Classical Eurocentrism in some of our members, let us explore the majesty of ...

Raga Rock

the best and the rest:

"Norwegian Wood (This Bird Has Flown)" (1965),[19] "Love You To" (1966), "Tomorrow Never Knows" (1966), "Within You Without You" (1967), and "The Inner Light" (1968) by The Beatles

"See My Friends" (1965) and "Fancy" (1966) by The Kinks

"Heart Full of Soul" (1965) and "White Summer" (1967) by The Yardbirds

"Eight Miles High" (1966), "Why" (1966), "I See You" (1966), "Thoughts And Words" (1967), "Mind Gardens" (1967) and "Moog Raga" (1967) by The Byrds

"The Fat Angel" (1966), "Three King Fishers" (1966) and "Peregrine" (1968) by Donovan

"Paint It, Black" (1966) and "Gomper" (1967) by The Rolling Stones

"Grim Reaper of Love" (1966) by The Turtles

"Venus in Furs" (1967) by The Velvet Underground

"The End" (1967) by The Doors

"I" (1967) and "Hideaway" (1967) by The Electric Prunes

"Paper Sun" (1967), "Utterly Simple" (1967) by Traffic

"The Mad Hatter's Song" (1967) and "The Half-Remarkable Question" (1968) by The Incredible String Band

"Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun" (1968) by Pink Floyd

"Sit with the Guru" (1968), "Black Butter" (1968), "Nightmare of Percussion" (1968), "They Saw the Fat One Coming" (1968), "An Angry Young Man" (1968) by Our Strawberry Alarm Clock

"Square Room" (1968), "Just on Conception" (1968) and "Black Widow Spider" (1968) by Them

"Death" (1968) by The Pretty Things

"The Sunset" (1967), "Visions of Paradise" (1968), "Om" (1968), and "Sun is Still Shining", (1969) by The Moody Blues

"Girl in Your Eye" (1968) by Spirit

"Black Mountain Side" (1969) by Leaden Zeppelin


and more ...

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Re: ATU--The Movie, EPISODE I (with epilogue part 1 and 2) -- and EPISODE II -- and EPISODE III -- and EPISODE IV -- and EPISODE V -- and EPISODE VI

Post  Yakima Canutt on Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:02 am

Yakima Canutt wrote:now that we have exposed arbitrary Classical Eurocentrism in some of our members, let us explore the majesty of ...

Raga Rock

the best and the rest:

"Norwegian Wood (This Bird Has Flown)" (1965),[19] "Love You To" (1966), "Tomorrow Never Knows" (1966), "Within You Without You" (1967), and "The Inner Light" (1968) by The Beatles

"See My Friends" (1965) and "Fancy" (1966) by The Kinks

"Heart Full of Soul" (1965) and "White Summer" (1967) by The Yardbirds

"Eight Miles High" (1966), "Why" (1966), "I See You" (1966), "Thoughts And Words" (1967), "Mind Gardens" (1967) and "Moog Raga" (1967) by The Byrds

"The Fat Angel" (1966), "Three King Fishers" (1966) and "Peregrine" (1968) by Donovan

"Paint It, Black" (1966) and "Gomper" (1967) by The Rolling Stones

"Grim Reaper of Love" (1966) by The Turtles

"Venus in Furs" (1967) by The Velvet Underground

"The End" (1967) by The Doors

"I" (1967) and "Hideaway" (1967) by The Electric Prunes

"Paper Sun" (1967), "Utterly Simple" (1967) by Traffic

"The Mad Hatter's Song" (1967) and "The Half-Remarkable Question" (1968) by The Incredible String Band

"Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun" (1968) by Pink Floyd

"Sit with the Guru" (1968), "Black Butter" (1968), "Nightmare of Percussion" (1968), "They Saw the Fat One Coming" (1968), "An Angry Young Man" (1968) by Our Strawberry Alarm Clock

"Square Room" (1968), "Just on Conception" (1968) and "Black Widow Spider" (1968) by Them

"Death" (1968) by The Pretty Things

"The Sunset" (1967), "Visions of Paradise" (1968), "Om" (1968), and "Sun is Still Shining", (1969) by The Moody Blues

"Girl in Your Eye" (1968) by Spirit

"Black Mountain Side" (1969) by Leaden Zeppelin


and more ...


note: some of these aren't especially Raggy, they're just using sitars and such

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Re: ATU--The Movie, EPISODE I (with epilogue part 1 and 2) -- and EPISODE II -- and EPISODE III -- and EPISODE IV -- and EPISODE V -- and EPISODE VI

Post  pinhedz on Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:06 am

Yakima Canutt wrote: ... The point is that improvisational quality is irrelevant to staying in the same key, which countless musical traditions do.  I would argue that patience-trying, trance-like musics such as by The Doors would actually become more tedious with key changes.  But that could be a matter of taste stemming from my residency with the Minimalist Academy of World Tone Jihad.
I suppose key changes would not be conducive to a trancelike state, and having one's trancelike state disrupted could be irritating. Is irritation tedious? I reckon it could get tedious.

But perhaps I should have made a distinction between "improvisation" and "noodling." Noodling is actually a form of improvisation, but it makes one bored instead of entranced (it might well be that in some cases one person's noodling is another person's trance--or it might depend on the substances inhaled or ingested).

In any case, I would say that noodling becomes less tedious with key changes--as in the opening bars of "Light My Fire."

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Re: ATU--The Movie, EPISODE I (with epilogue part 1 and 2) -- and EPISODE II -- and EPISODE III -- and EPISODE IV -- and EPISODE V -- and EPISODE VI

Post  pinhedz on Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:12 am

btw--before you call the pinhed "Eurocentric," you should listen to the pinhedz all-time fav video clips.

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